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Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Tolo Mentes (---.dynamic.telemach.net)
Date: May 31, 2024 11:18AM

Hello!

I have a little dilemma ...

I want to do one small rod repair (broken rod).I will add carbon fiber sticks in the blank to fix it, but I need epoxy for gluing these sticks into the blank ...

Can you tell me which epoxy is the correct one? Do I have to use the epoxy glue which is used for the gluing reel seats and handles? Or do I have to use the epoxy which is used for guides?

Thank you!

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 31, 2024 12:01PM

You want to use an epoxy adhesive. I suggest one of the gel epoxies such as RodBond or equivalent. Mud Hole, Flex Coat, etc. all have similar.

"Carbon Fiber Sticks" are the wrong material for such a rod repair. Please see this article for help: [www.rodbuilding.org]

.........

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (94.140.11.---)
Date: May 31, 2024 12:47PM

Hands down:

West System GFlex650. Google it.
Herb
CTS

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: June 03, 2024 12:26AM

Over the years, I simply go to the big box or hardware store and purchase epoxy adhesive in the cure time needed for the job.
Be aware that if there is a cure time on the container, that in reality, the cure time (working time) - is about 1/2 of the listed time.

i.e. 5 minute epoxy begins to set up in about 3 minutes.
15 minute epoxy begins to set up in about 8 minutes.
30 minute epoxy begins to set up in about 15 minutes.
60 minute epoxy begains to set up in about 30 minutes.

I have some of most of these vearious epoxies on hand to deal with a particular gluing requirement for the job in question.

i.e. a very small amount of epoxy - with little adjustments needed - go for 5 minute epoxy.

However, if you have an extended glue up time caused by multiple parts like a rear grip, reel seat and fore grip - I generally go for 30 or 60 minuute cure time, due to the complexity of the job as well as using multiple pieces.
If I am gluing up individual cork rings, reel seat in the middle - I will be using either 30 minute or 60 minute epoxy.

Best wishes.

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Tolo Mentes (193.243.141.---)
Date: June 04, 2024 03:50AM

Thank you guys for your replies and help!

So, if I understand you correctly ...I'm using this FlexCoat Epoxy Glue for rod building: [flexcoat.com]
And I can use it also for broken rod repairs - is this true?

Tom, I also read your article - thanks!
In this case I will need a lot of old rods made from different materials on stock to follow your instructions. Is this true?
Or how do you handle all these repairs? Is there any other way to always have the correct part for repair on stock?

I thought that I could handle the repairs with sticks like this. :)
[www.9km-outdoor.com]

Thanks and regards!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2024 03:52AM by Tolo Mentes.

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 04, 2024 08:37AM

The strength of the epoxy isn't the issue for such a repair - you are seeking a continuity of flex across the repair area, not simply strength. In fact, many repairs fail because the builder does more to create "strength" and not enough to preserve flex across the repair area.

If the "sticks" you insert into the broken area are stiffer than the blank in that area, you are destined to have another failure, usually at the very end of the repaired area. Use a fiberglass oversleeve.

.......

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Tolo Mentes (---.static.siol.net)
Date: June 05, 2024 01:50AM

Tom,

Thank you for the reply ...

So, I don't need to focus on the epoxy. It is much more important to focus on the sleeves - is that correct? ;)

May I ask you a few more things? ;)

1.) Do you always use the fiberglass sleeves? Ne metter from which material is rod made?

2.) Is it necessary that I oversleep the repair area? When I watch videos on YT and read articles on the web, people mostly use innersleeves ... Or am I wrong?

3.) Where do you buy these fiberglass pieces (sleeves) for repairs? Do you always use some old (used) rods or do you use some new sleeves (I can find some on Aliexpress, but they are not cheep)?

4.) How do you know how strong is rod which you repair and from what material is made (modules)? So, how do you know what sleeve to use?

Thank you and regards!

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 05, 2024 09:07AM

Larger diameter equates to greater stiffness. So if you are over-sleeving a carbon rod you want to use a glass over-sleeve. This creates a more uniform amount of stiffness between the two pieces.

Old glass rods are available at flea markets and yard sales. You can build up quite a stock for just a few dollars.

All the questions you ask are fully answered in Ralph O'Quinn's repair article. Ralph was a master repair person. I have seen rods broken 3 inches behind the tip and he repaired them to the degree that users say they could not tell any difference in the rod after the repair was made. Read the article - very good stuff.

..........

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: June 05, 2024 05:43PM

Here is the article Tom is referring to.
[www.rodbuilding.org]
I’ve repaired hundred of broken rods over the years, and they have held up very well even after years of hard use. I think the secret to a successful rod repair is finding a piece of blank that not only fits in or over the break area, but also allows the repaired rod to bend or flex smoothly without any apparent stiff spot. In most cases, this requires the insert or over-sleeve to have a lower modulus than the rod being repaired. This is a reason why fiber glass repair pieces are preferred. However, this doesn’t preclude the use of graphite repair pieces. It depends on the modulus of the piece used and also where the break is located. In short, it’s just a matter of finding a repair piece that allows the rod to bend smoothly. I always test the mock installed (before glueing) repair piece by pushing the rod tip against the ceiling and looking at the bend. If there is a stiff spot, I look for another repair piece. If I see a smooth bend than I’m ready to glue the piece in place. Remember to always wrap thread on each side of break if using an insert or wrap the over-sleeve piece before testing. This thread wrap will help prevent the rod or over-sleeve from splitting. Repairing a broken rod is not that difficult, it’s just a matter of finding the right repair piece. However with that said, I have a very large stash of old broken rods and rod pieces that people have given to me over the years. Without such a stash repairing a broken rod becomes more difficult.
Your solid graphite inserts may work just fine, it just depends on their modulus vs that of the broken rod as well as where the break is located. I enjoy fixing broken rods, it’s a challenge but gives you a great deal of satisfaction if you are successful.
Norm

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 05, 2024 05:51PM

I have used graphite sleeves almost exclusively in repairs of this sort, and have had no problems. I cannot find decent glass blanks for this. What I can find are very thick and the repair looks really ugly. Using thin walled graphite has worked, and I believe that the worry about graphite having too high of a modulus is a wasted worry.

I am not talking about using solid graphite inserts. I agree that is not right. In fact I've never seen a solid graphite piece.

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: June 05, 2024 08:03PM

I agree thin walled graphite pieces look better when used as an over-sleeve, and when I do an over-sleeve repair I use the thinnest sleeve wall I can find that will work. However, some graphite pieces, even with a thin wall, are so stiff that it prevents a softer rod from bending smoothly, looks like there’s a kink in the rod. Not a good thing. For the most part I prefer using an insert to repair a broken rod, since it doesn’t interfere with the rod’s taper. However, I will use whatever gives me the best results for the break I’m dealing with. In many cases, I will try to adjust the guide placement so I can hide the repair under a guide. Sometime you can sometimes you can’t. I have also used a tip section from one broken rod as an over-sleeve to replace a broken tip on another rod. As long as you get a smooth bend in the repaired rod you are good to go.
Norm

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 06, 2024 06:11AM

Guess I've been lucky, Norman. I have not detected a discontinuity in curve using thin walled graphite, and the rods I've repaired have all lived successfully. I'll keep an eye out for that stiff spot.

Am I interpreting your comment correctly that you often use an insert, or inside reinforcement for rod repairs? If so, do you prefer glass or graphite? Inside would logically lead one to a stiffer, higher, modulus repair piece.

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: June 06, 2024 11:18AM

Mick - Knowing what rods you like, you’re probably repairing high modulus rods, which are stiff to begin with. So, repairing with an over-sleeve of similar or lower modulus graphite you will not get much if any of stiff spot. I repair rods of all kinds, most are store bought rods with a wide range of actions and powers made from various materials. So, finding an appropriate repair piece that will give a smooth bend is a little more challenging. For internal inserts I will will use whatever works, graphite or fiberglass. It should also be mentioned that location of the break plays a factor into the type of repair and material used. It’s not a ‘one method fits all’ situation. In most cases, I use graphite repair pieces because most of my broken rod stash are graphite. C. Boyd Pfeiffer’s Tackle Craft (published 1974) had sections on making fiberglass over-sleeve ferrules and repairing rods with internal plugs (inserts). At the time it was a very nice book with a lot of stuff still relevant. I learned a lot from it.
Norm

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 06, 2024 02:26PM

Good point, Norman. All the rods I've done, if I remember right, were high modulus graphite.

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: June 07, 2024 10:45AM

Michael,
I tend to use fiberglass outer sleeves, as well as inner plugs to insure a break free joint.

You mention thick wall thickness.

No problem, take the piece of potential repair over sleeve that has too thick wall thickness and chuck it into a drill.

Then hold the spinning piece of blank repair material next to a belt sander, running in the opposite direction as the rotation of the blank section and sand the blank down to size.

You can do some testing to be sure that the piece of blank material will be suitable for a repair piece by stressing a thinned piece of the material to the breaking point.

But, the point about the thinner graphite material working well and this too - if you wish, can be thinned using the same technique.

I have a couple of 1x30 as well as 1x42 belt sanders for use in the shops for construction and repair. I keep a variity of belt grits on hand as wel to expedite the sanding and having a final polished finish by finishing with a very fine grit paper like 320, 480 or 600 grit.

Examples of 1x30 inch belt sanders:

[www.google.com]

Examples of 1x42 inch sanders:

[www.google.com]

-----------------------------
Facebook market place:
[www.facebook.com]
[www.facebook.com]

=======================
If you don't have a belt sander, you will find that after purchase, and an appropriate various grit belts that you will use the sander for many many uses in both the shop as well as for house related and construction related tasks. Sanders of this sort - work on virtually any material.

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Re: Which Epoxy for gluing carbon sticks (rod repair)
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 07, 2024 12:45PM

Thanks, Roger, good ideas.

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