Not a story - a practical test. Unless there is some sort of electrical current passing through the line and down the rod, you are left with nothing but leverage, which entails rod length.

................

Just finished a PB691MLXF, CF split grip, CRB ergonomic seat (shortened, full length arbor),Norm Miller style hook keeper, BC gray alconite, 20H,10H, 6M, 5.5L, 2 KB's, 3 KT's all 5's, more thread and finish than you'll be using if you're trying to stay light. 3.2 oz. I'm not saying this is what you should use, just giving an example. My 6-9 rods seem to come in at twice the weight of the blank. I built a similar rod on this blank for my son in 2019 and it also weighed 3.2oz.

Isaiah....... of course if Torzite guides are lighter than the SIC guides of the same size, the SIC guided rod is going to weigh more. But as I said, the difference in weight between a Torzite and SIC ringed guide in the sizes I quoted above, is minuscule. The difference is less than a 1/10 of a once between the Torzite and SIC guide trains I have on the rods. In fact, the entire guide trains on each rod, including the tip top, don't weigh 1/10 of an ounce.

1/10 of an ounce equals 2.835 grams. The entire Torzite guide train, including tip top. 1.627 grams. The entire SIC guide train, including tip top, 1.883 grams. The difference in weight of the two guide trains, .256 grams.

Same number of guides. 12 guides total, plus the tip top. KW 10, KW 5.5, 3 KBs, 7 KTs. The KBs and KTs in Torzite are 4.5s. The KBs and KTs in SIC, are 5's. Cost of the entire Torzite guide train, including tip top, $141.35. Cost of the entire SIC guide train, including tip top, $115.77. The difference in cost of the two guide trains, including tip tops, $25.58. I know, it's only $25. But like I said, I can't feel any difference at all between the two rods. I just don't see it being cost effective.

Of course with spinning rod guides, the weight savings between Torzite and SIC will be greater. But I'd be surprised if it still amounts to more than 1/10 of an ounce. An entire KR concept spinning rod guide train using T2.s comes in at a little more than 4 grams.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2024 06:35PM by David Baylor.

Draw a foot of water in your bathtub. Rig up a rod with line and some sort of lure. Drop the lure into the water in the tub. Lower the rod tip so that the line is slack. What do you feel? Nothing. Now have somebody reach into the water and slap the lure, jig, etc. What do you feel? Nothing. And the reason you feel nothing is because sensitivity isn’t about some sort of magical current or “vibration” being transmitted through the line and down the rod to your hand. Such simply doesn’t occur.

Now if you take the slack out and put the system under tension, you can feel a lot of things. That’s because what you’re feeling is actually the lure either pulling against you or resisting your effort to retrieve it. A crankbait or spinnerbait “vibration” felt by the anger is nothing more than the candence of resistance. Whatever is on the end of line pulling or resisting you is working with a second order lever. The longer that lever the greater the pull or resistance against you will be. Sensitivity in terms of what you can physically feel comes down to the leverage the lure, bait, fish, etc., has against you. A longer lever equals a more "sensitive" rod.

Tests with audio or frequency measurements tell us a lot, but neither approximates a real world fishing situation.

………….

As someone who has an NRX plus, legend xtreme, poison ultima and now am continuing on my journey with NFC and custom rods, I can tell you two things that are fact…

1. They are ALL over priced
2. They are all completely different rods

Sensitivity alone isn’t enough imo. I’m more of a “is it a softer rod or a stiffer rod” kinda fisherman. You are gonna want a stiffer rod if you’re comparing to the NRX.

Choosing Torzite is not just about weight saving , Torzite is a considerably more slippery ceramic than SIC , it's diameter is larger for the same size ring and it's not near as prone to fracturing if taking a hard blow as SIC is . That being said I don't think the majority of anglers would notice any difference at all between them in real world fishing conditions with the exception perhaps of long surf rods . I do think SIC is the much better buy and a smart choice and don't consider it a downgrade when compared to Torzite .

Chris, agreed on all points. Actually, the difference in ID of a Torzite guide versus Fuji's SIC ringed guides, is the reason I went with 4.5s in Torzite, and 5's in SIC. So far durability with the SICs hasn't been a problem for me. And the slickness of one over the other, as a bass fisherman, doesn't really seem like a consideration. Different story if you're fishing for fish that can pull 40 - 50 yards of line off the spool in a blink of an eye. If I fished for fish like that, it would definitely be a big consideration

Just for consideration ...........If someone is looking for an alternative to the Fuji KL and KT guides with Titanium frames, the American Tackle Ti Forged High Frame guides are pretty darned nice. It may be personal bias, but I think the Fuji guides are a little nicer, but not by much. I have the Am Tack Ti's on a rod I just built on an NFC IS 694 X ray blank. I went with the Pentalite ring option, and if they aren't an exact match in ID per guide size with Torzite ringed Fuji's, they are extremely close. Heck they may even have a slightly larger ID than a Torzite in the same size.

I know I weighed Am Tack Ti's , but I'll be danged if I can find the notes with their weights. I do remember they are ever so slightly heavier than Fuji T2s in the same sizes. Consider that the Ti Forged guide train was almost $40 less expensive than the same set of Fuji T2's, and they are a very attractive alternative. So much so that I will be ordering a set for an MB 733 X ray blank that I have yet to build on.

A few things about the Am Tack Ti's ..... They aren't the exact same heights as Fuji's in the same sizes. So if you plan on just plugging in the numbers the KR software spits out, the Am Tacks won't bullseye like the Fuji guides will. You'll have to adjust the spacing a bit. Which I've learned, isn't really a big deal. Even if you happen to use fluorocarbon line as the main line on your spinning gear.

Also, Am Tack does not offer a guide like a KB. The Ti Forged running guides are along the line of Fuji KT's. And, American Tackle does not offer a titanium tip top, so you'll need to mismatch with an SS tip top. And if saving ever last bit of weight is your top priority, there is a pretty substantial difference in the weight of a titanium tip top, versu an SS tip top. At least in the Fuji line up. That's not to say that an SS tip top weighs a lot. It just weighs a lot compared to the super light weight of say, a Fuji Arowana KG titanium tip top.

But if you're looking to try an IMO, a really nice set of guides at a really good price.... the American Tackle Ti's are well worth consideration

Interesting...

David Riesenbeck Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As someone who has an NRX plus, legend xtreme,
> poison ultima and now am continuing on my journey
> with NFC and custom rods, I can tell you two
> things that are fact…
>
> 1. They are ALL over priced
> 2. They are all completely different rods
>
> Sensitivity alone isn’t enough imo. I’m more
> of a “is it a softer rod or a stiffer rod”
> kinda fisherman. You are gonna want a stiffer rod
> if you’re comparing to the NRX.



Why did you buy those rods if they are way overpriced and you can build a better rod yourself?

I have been on the quest to build the rod the closest to an NRX+ 852s for some time now. I've built a Point blank MXF 7'3" that I cut down two inches. That is the closest i've found but I just finished it, so havent fished a ton of shakey heads with it yet, but i think its a little stronger than the 852s. I should have done Med-light.

I've also built a PB 69 MXF and MHXF(Casting) and a MLXF. The PB69MXF is a great rod with a really fast tip and a good backbone. I love throwing 3/16 oz -1/4 shakey heads on this, especially around docks or where i need more precise casting, The 69MLXF im still building and actually going to try those NFC carbon fiber guides on it, to either Regular REC or thier inserts.

I just got a PB 7' ML Fast, but I want that extra fast. I'm sure this rod will be great for throwing small swimbaits and drop shotting, not that any of the other mentioned aren't.

I've also built on the NFC X-ray 703 and its not as strong or fast as the 852. It does feel really good and its very sensitive in that 3/16-1/4oz spot. I've got my boat being serviced by a guy here on Lanier who is also a guide and i showed him all of the mentioned rods, and he really liked the NFC SJ 703 for drop shotting 3/8oz weights on brush in 20-40ft of water. He doesn't know it yet but I'm going to build him one for the work he's doing on my electronics, installing FFS and replacing another broken transducer for a good deal. I wish I could get that blank sooner that the usual NFC shipping, thats another reason I tried point blank and havent really looked back. The rod ratings on the NFC blanks were way off, I'd say the SJ703 is a 1/8-3/8 oz rod (Same as the 852s.)

I also built an NFC SJ 732, but ended up giving that to a friend because It felt a little odd to me, It was a little light. I've also built an SB722 and thats a nice rod that ive been using for drop shotting and throwing spybaits. But its not as fast. as the 852.

On all of these rods I've used Fuji KL-H 20's down to CEREC 6's (its the REC with an insert in it). I love those guides, they are so much better than the normal REC guides.

On the SJ703 I used a Fuji VSS real seat with a NFC Soft touch grip. Came out really nice with blue thread and titanium SiC guides.

On the PB rods I used the new Fuji TCH Reel seat, and man let me tell you those things are awesome. they such a close diameter to the blank i hardly have to build any arbor, and they are so light and strong that its incredible to the touch. VooDoo rods has some good parts to make it look good without being too much decoration.

Overall all of these rods that I've built to try to build my own 852s havent been as on as the real rod itself. but they've all found good places in my rod locker and use. I have not tried the Point Blank 73MLXF, and cutting an inch or two off the butt, that will most likely be the closest possible if not better than the 852s because you can design your own grip.

There is no such thing as a rod that is more sensitive than others.

Simply put - the word sensitive - is a non word that makes no sense when applied to a fishing rod.

You can use the word light weight, or heavy weight.

You can use the word long, or short.

But for practical purposes the word sensitivity when applied to a rod blank is really an undefined word.

I think that a better word to use, when it comes to a characteristic of a rod blank is to simply ask the question: Which rod blank puts the most fish in the boat. Ultimately, that is what fisher want to know.

You could also - use some sort of impulse measuring device and get a scientific answer when asked the question; Which rod blank is more efficient and transfers a larger % of the total amount of force that struck the rod to generate the impulse.

Best wishes.

[www.ifish.net]

"There is no such thing as a rod that is more sensitive than others." I strongly disagree. If one believed this he would have all glass rods in his quiver. Would save a lot of money.

Regarding the definition of sensitivity, when I started all this discussion of sensitivity about two years ago I defined it as the ability to detect a fish bite. No one, as I remember, took exception to that. For any discussion there has to be agreement on the definition of terms. Otherwise everyone is not necessarily discussing the same thing. There was lots of discussion about how to evaluate it and what characteristics contributed to it, but it seemed like a good definition to about everyone. Is power a "non word?" Is action a "non word?" Just what defines a "non word?"

Trying to learn anything about modern graphite rods by giving them a good shake will reveal nothing about the rod except its weight.

Next time I go to the sporting goods store to look at rods should I look for that label that says something like: "This rod puts the most fish in the boat." ?

I agree that defining and discussing sensitivity in fishing rods is difficult and yields many opinions, but denying the existence of sensitivity in fishing rods is to deny reality.

This one time ..... at band camp .....

Michael,
Of course I agree with you completely.

The reason that I made the response is that for many folks including very bright and educated anglers, and educators - the very definition of sensitivity tends to defy implementation.

Hence, my response about the rod that puts the fish in the boat.

There is no question about it. When I fish for very bite shy fish, I only fish with very expensive, very light, very high modulus graphite with a pretty small tip section on the blank to allow maximum visual movement of the rod tip with a very small amount of pressure.

Hence, I think that for many fishing situations a combination of a tip that moves with very light pressure and a rod that allows changes in line pressure to be transmitted to the hand or fingers of the angler - tends to round out the definition for myself.

Got, Roger. I misinterpreted your post.

The Lamiglas SI series.

Origins are important

Michael,
You did not misinterpret my original post.
I was just posting a rather ambiguous post to raise some conversation.

Regarding the topic of longer rods (of the same material, action, power, etc) being more sensitive than shorter rods. Does this mean that the same blank, held at different points, would feel more sensitive if held at the butt VS being held, say 10 or 11" from the butt?

IE - Could/does reel seat placement impact sensitivity?

If sensitivity = ability to feel a bite, the answer is yes. But there are many factors going into the ability to feel a bite. Line is probably the most important.