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Guide Sizes for low profile reel on cast rod
Posted by: Brian Preston (---)
Date: May 23, 2024 08:53PM

Hi Everyone,

This is my first build and have ran into a snag with my build. I have a couple of questions I need answered so I know how best to proceed with this.

First thing to know is that my preference is set on the Alps Low Profile Black/Gold guides (SKU: LPB-ZG for reference). That doesn't mean I won't budge on them it just has to be made apparent there is no alternative.

Anyways,

The guides recommended were a 16 or 12, 10, 8, 7, 6 (x4) and then a 6 tip top. Unfortunately the tip top from the supplier does not come in a 6mm only an 8mm in the colour and line rating I am after. I am wondering if there would be any issues with making guides a 16, 12, 10, 8 (x4) with a 8mm tip top.

Furthermore these guides are low profile since I thought that since the reel is a Penn Fathom low profile reel with the level wind I would need low profile as well. Is this the case? Or would I be able to get away with taller guides or even tall guides?

Sincerely,

Brian

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Re: Guide Sizes for low profile reel on cast rod
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: May 24, 2024 09:41AM

Assuming this is a casting rod you don't need all those different sizes. They do nothing for you nor the line. You'd never need more than 3 different sizes, and on casting rods just 2 is usually fine.

The higher the frames the greater the lever arm effect of the guides upon the blank. This increases the tendency of the rod to twist/torque when under load (and no, spine orientation will not change this). So many choose to use lower frame guides but understand that the lower the frame the greater the chance the line will contact the blank under heavy load. Thus you will likely need to use a couple or three more guides. Given today's very small, lightweight guides, this isn't likely to be much of an issue.

......

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Re: Guide Sizes for low profile reel on cast rod
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---)
Date: May 24, 2024 10:49AM

What is the rod for, what reel are you using and what is the blank? I see in another post that the reel is a Penn Fathom low profile baitcaster, what size is it and what line do you intend using?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2024 10:54AM by Lance Schreckenbach.

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Re: Guide Sizes for low profile reel on cast rod
Posted by: Brian Preston (---)
Date: May 25, 2024 07:01AM

Lance Schreckenbach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What is the rod for, what reel are you using and
> what is the blank? I see in another post that the
> reel is a Penn Fathom low profile baitcaster, what
> size is it and what line do you intend using?

Using the rod for estuary fishing targeting species such as Mangrove Jack.

Blank is a Samurai CG3 OS287 (6ft 20-40lb Fast)

Reel is a Penn Fathom. Reel Size 300 (Model #: FTH300LPHS)

To go after Mangrove Jacks we use 40lb Mono line.

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Re: Guide Sizes for low profile reel on cast rod
Posted by: Les Cline (---)
Date: May 25, 2024 03:59PM

Brian,

I would recommend one of these two guide trains:

1.) (1) Double Foot #12 or #10 ring for Butt Guide (first guide from reel) followed by (1) #5.5 or #6 ring Double Foot guide. Then, go with #5.5 or #6 ring single-foot running guides out to the tip guide of the same ring size. (On a six foot rod, I'd use 6 or 7 running guides. Do a two-line static test to set all guide placements to follow the natural curve of the blank.

2.) (1) Double Foot #12 or #10 ring and go straight to the #5.5 or #6 ring running guides out to the tip guide.

Personally, I'd use a Simple Spiral layout if it were my rig using it to muscle large fish and heavy line on a short leash.

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Re: Guide Sizes for low profile reel on cast rod
Posted by: Mark Hahn (---.29.18.98.static.ip.windstream.net)
Date: May 26, 2024 10:12AM

I second the simple spiral from Les. I made one for a customer a few years ago and it has worked wonders for him.

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Re: Guide Sizes for low profile reel on cast rod
Posted by: Les Cline (---)
Date: May 26, 2024 10:45AM

I don't see any problems with using #8 running guides to match the tip top - only that they may be more than you need to pass your line efficiently, and add a bit of extra weight to the rig. I also don't think it would be a big deal if you had a #8 tip top with #6 guides. I do understand the aesthetic considerations.

The larger #8 guides will also add more torque to the rod as they are a taller lever working against you. This is another reason the Simple Spiral is what I would use on a rod like this if it were mine.

As to needing "Low Profile" guides to go with a low profile reel, I say you want the "Proper Profile" (height and ring size) whatever they may be named.

Butt Guide:

For starters, what you want is a butt guide with sufficient height to be about the same or a littler lower as the spool guide of the reel. That is why a #12 or #10 ring size is usually recommended for a 300 reel. I have a Shimano TranX 300 and I used a Fuji RV-6 butt guide because it has a small ring but is on a high frame. The RV-6 is about the same height as a #10 ring.

I am imagining you don't want a butt guide that is too low, either, since you likely will have a foregrip on your rod. You want room for your hand under the line! With 40 pound mono under high strain and speed, I'd want my hand clear of it. (Maybe the #12 would be best?)

Running Guides:

Guides with less height have a lower profile and keep the line closer to the blank itself. This reduces torque and follows the natural bend signature of the rod - allowing you to max-out the blanks power. So, single foots with the smallest ring that will get the job done are the ticket.

That's my take.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/26/2024 11:09AM by Les Cline.

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Re: Guide Sizes for low profile reel on cast rod
Posted by: MichaelTarr (174.209.198.---)
Date: May 27, 2024 07:29AM

If I could only use those guides I’d go with a #10 double foot, #8 double foot, then 5 #8 single foot and #8 top. I’d do a simple spiral and call it done.

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Re: Guide Sizes for low profile reel on cast rod
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: May 29, 2024 10:27AM

My goodness, there is no need to match the size of the tip top to the running guides.

If you happen to have a size 8 tip top and size 6 or 4 running guides go ahead and use that set up. It makes exactly 0 difference on the operation of the rod, that will be felt by the user of the rod and reel.

By the way, for this rod and reel use a size 12 then, go to a size 8 and size 6 to the tip and a size 6, 8 or 10 tip top - it is up to you.

Two different guides sizes are sufficient for your setup.

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