I just finished a rod for a family member and the finish quality is fairly sub par for my standards. The epoxy over the writing is wavy, it didn’t even out on the guides much at all, and there’s some ridges that came out which weren’t there from the thread. It’s threadmaster high build but about 2 years old. Epoxy was applied within 15min of mixing, ambient temp was about 70F, I had a heater going under the table so there wouldn’t have been any breeze to mess with the epoxy. It’s just disappointing because it was coming out great and it’s for someone else.

I usually I do 2 thin coats of high build and get great results. This is the first time I needed to do 3 layers thin coats to get it as even as possible and heat from a lighter didn’t help thin/spread it. I noticed it didn’t spread easily when I was applying it right after mixing.

Never had this issue before and unfortunately I don’t think there’s much I can do about . I have new bottles of Gen 4 on the bench. Would it be worthwhile to to give it a 4th coat with Gen4 to try even everything out?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/30/2024 05:01PM by Evan Cobb.

Nope.
Sand the high spots off with 2000 grit wet or dry so you don't go into your threads.
Then recoat and make sure you try to even out the wraps. Sand again , and again - if need be.
Cut the sand paper into strips a little shorter than wrap and sand like you are polishing a shoe with a cloth - like you see them doing in the old movies - or the airport at a shoe shining stand.
Herb

As long as you don't get into the thread you can sand/file all you want. I have never had any problems with the next coat hiding everything no matter how rough a grit I used. I prefer a file as I have greater control.

Sounds like the finish may have been setting up before you had it all applied. I would sand/file and give it another coat.

Your post makes it clear you aren't one to settle for work you aren't proud of. So it is level it out and re-coat, or cut the guides off and re-wrap.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Evan,
The heater may have made the epoxy setup too fast - Russell may be right.

Use my trick to keep epoxy freah: After mixing pour out on 5-6 aluminum foli "trays". Use enough foil to triple the thickness so they don't bend.
Then put all in the freezer and take out as needed. Takes 20-30 seconds before it can be used. Depending on freezer temp - you an still use it next day. Same dayis guaranteed.
Herb
CTS

Look at the left over epoxy in your mixing cup - did it level? Nothing wrong with the epoxy, you did something to cause this. The possible causes are many.

So the issue now is how to fix it. Simply applying more epoxy over what you have now isn't likely to fix anything. You're faced with block sanding any areas that allow it and then re-coating, thinly. If this is tricky over the guide foot humps you may have to remove, re-wrap and re-apply epoxy. Not fun but if it's for somebody else (customer?) you have have to do it.

In the future, make you don't spend more than maybe 30 seconds on coating each guide. This way you get the most out of the pot life and can get everything coated before the epoxy starts to thicken.

.................

You used the termp - I applied the epoxy within 15 minutes of mixing.

Especially, if you had used any heat at all before applyingy you could have severely shorted the pot life of the epoxy.

Since you said, that the mixture appeared to be thicker than normal - I am guessing that the temperature and the time between mixing and application caused the issue.

Also, if you used a conventional lighter for heat - do yourself a favor and stop doing that.

If you can see the flame from the heat source, you have a flame that contains carbon that gets into the mixture as it is setting up.

Therefore, either use a flame that is invisible - like a butane lighter or use an alcohol lamp filled with 99% pure dentured alcohol. Both of these types of flame are invisible and contain nothing to contaminate the finish.
Or, use a heat gun that you turn on - pointed away from the rod for a few seconds to be sure that any dust that might have accumulated in the heat gun is blown out before being directed toward the rod.

----------------
For myself, I have both bottle of type a and b at room temperature. I measure out equal quantities of part a and part b. Note: Before starting to pour, measure and mix - I make sure that every thing is 100% ready to be coated - with respect to applying finish.

Then, I use a plastic 2 oz dixie cup using a craft stick that has been cut square on the end with slightly rouned tops to avoid cueeing into the cup with a sharp edge on the side of the mixing stick.
Then, I mix slowly for 120 seconds or 2 minutes - while frequently wiping the sides of the mixing cup, as well as the bottom of the mixing cup and also wiping off both sides of the mixing stick to insure that every particle of epoxy is equally mixed.
Within 20 seconds of completing the mix, I begin to apply finish with a wide disposable brush at speeds of 0 - 50 rpm on my wrapper. The first quick pass with finish application is to insure that there is sufficient finish on each guide, guide wrap and butt wrap. At this point I am not concerend with leveling or any thing similar. I just want to get sufficient quantites of epoxy on the rod - to completely fill the wraps and around the guide foot of each guide. This first application, takes about 2 minutes.

Then, I go back and start from the butt wrap and smooth and add or delete finish from the rod to get a nice even covering and then proceeding to the next guide.

Then, I go back a third time to do any final clean up and or final adding or deleting finish as required. Finally, I go back a forth time for final inspection to triple check. Also, at that time, I take my invisible flame heat source to slightly warm -- for the first time the finish on each location to thin the mixture as needed and to let the fnish do its final flow.

So, from the time that I start to apply finish to the rod until the job is complete is generally between 5 and 7 minutes. Even at that time, there has only been about 12 mintues total from the time of first starting to apply finish until it is compllete.

I have only used flex coat high build finish and under most circumstances, only require one thicker coat.

As soon, as I have completed the final inspection, I slow my wrapper down to 5-7 rpm for an overnight drying time, or if in a production mode, let the rod spin for 15 minutes or so, to get to the point where the finish is not sagging and transfer the rod to a single or to a drum dryer depending on the circumstances for what is coming up next in the shop.

I am not a believer in multiple coats of finish, nor do I ever condone using any sort of solvent or thinner in the finish. Simply put, there is no need for either. So, I simply prefer to call this method, a 1+ finish coat. i.e. I apply a rather genrous coat of initial finish and for most areas on the rod, this is sufficient for the perfect finish. But as I go through the multiple inspection phases in the first 10 minutes of application, I may need to add a slight amount of additional finish for the perfect look. Hence the + part of the application, but it is still in the first coat drying cycle.

In production mode, by only having to use a single drying cycle, this method cuts out drying time for multiple coats of finish.

NOTE:
Remember, for initial finish application, no need and no reason to have the temperature of the epoxy finish any warmer than room temperature. i.e. assuming that room temperature is between 68 and 75 degrees.

Best wishes.

"I am not a believer in multiple coats of finish, nor do I ever condone using any sort of solvent or thinner in the finish. Simply put, there is no need for either. So, I simply prefer to call this method, a 1+ finish coat. i.e. I apply a rather genrous coat of initial finish and for most areas on the rod, this is sufficient for the perfect finish. But as I go through the multiple inspection phases in the first 10 minutes of application, I may need to add a slight amount of additional finish for the perfect look. Hence the + part of the application, but it is still in the first coat drying cycle." I agree. I think, as Tom K has repeatedly tried to point out, that most epoxy problems come from too much fooling around with it, too much epoxy, or too much heat, or some combination of these. I use lite Gen 4 , used to use lite FC, and the only times I had problems was when I screwed up as described. Most of my guides never see a second coat, are not footballs, look just fine, and last just fine. Most second coats are in the decal/long area and are caused by dust. I don't have a clean room kind of workspace.

From the description it definitely sounds as if the finish was already well on its' way to being too thick for good leveling. Personally, the only time I've tried heating finish to help it level out, I've caused myself more problems than I've corrected. So much so that I entirely avoid using heat at any point in the finish process.

IMO, if you need to use heat, you need to refine your process.

And I'm like Michael ..... I put on a generous amount of finish as a first and only coat, then let the rod sit motionless, guides up, until the finish starts to sag to the bottom of the blank. On longer areas of finish you'll be able to see areas where it's sagging more than others, and you can just wick off those areas. Once all sags have been cleared I rotate the rod 180 degrees and repeat the aforementioned process. One more 180 rotation and a check for sags and we're good to go.

If you're one that uses 2 or even 3 light coats, my hats off to you. For me every coat comes with the potential of adding a problem that wasn't there before. I use high build finish, but as Michael said, even with regular build formulas, there is no real need for two coats, if you put on enough to use only one coat.

Like Michael said, one coat, no footballs, just nice even wraps.

My biggest problems with finish and wraps at this point, is the occasional little nub that I didn't see until I applied the finish. I hate those !!! lol