Instead of taking Todd’s post on the Expride grip sideways, I decided it was best to start a new one. I find it valuable when conceiving a new build to look at a few factory model lines for reference. It’s not that I’m interested in cloning what they are doing, but rather being informed by it. The Expride seems to be in the top handful of factory lines most respected for being dialed-in at technique function. I’ve never owned one, but I see some pretty good accolades not involving sponsorship. My point here isn’t to really talk about Exprides, but the value in looking at some better rod lines for reference.

There is a huge synthesis of data and hours on the water in some of these factory lines. There can be a pretty large team that tests across varied fisheries. I like to see what specifications they settle on and try to understand why. Then, I usually do something a little different. I don’t get or have to fish a lot of heavy vegetation in local waters. Thus, I can frequently go a bit lighter. Still, I am able to start with a coherent reference point for calibration. I also look at St. Croix Rod lines and certainly the blank lines of Team Rainshadow (Batson), and Gary Loomis at NFC. I look at United Composites for saltwater and have to dig deeper for specialized stuff like lingcod. I’ll cross check with some of the better fishing videos to see what they use, and why for specific techniques. Maybe their parameters match, maybe there is a reason they don’t. What rod or blank lines do you all study, if any? How do you deviate if a customer isn’t dictating that?

I like where you are going here, and you state quite well my reasoning for looking at new “off the shelf” rods. I want to see what is new, how things are trending, and to give myself ideas. Building rods has taught me to pay attention to details. Fit/finish, wraps, grips, guides, etc. as Kendall stated, I’m not looking to clone anything, but I like to see what’s out there. I live where walleye is king, so that drives inventory in my area. I like to look at St. Croix, GLoomis, Fenwick, Kistler, Shimano, and Scheels “house rods”. I’m not sure who manufactures for Scheels but they have some decent stuff. I did like the handle concept on that Shimano.

For many years I've watched rod company personnel browse the floor at the Expo to find ideas for what they'll be producing in one or two future model years. Most anything you'll see on commercially made rods this year, was displayed at the Expo a year or two prior. Most of this stuff originates with the custom builders.

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That’s a great point, Tom. Information and ideas go in every direction. Trends recycle when good ideas are behind them, as well. I never stopped building moderate action carbon rods for crankbaits when they went out of style. Now, there seems to be a move back to either composites or full carbon. I’m not sure whether custom builders have more ideas on designing for fishing techniques verses the factories. I know I have unique rods for that. I had to start with their blanks (which are cut), though.

A commercial manufacturer has limited personnel from which to draw ideas for the "next thing" that will be a market success. Conversely, there are thousands of custom rod builders, all working in various directions, that results in a myriad number of new ideas each year. It's only smart for the commercial makers to "borrow" what they see at the Expo each year. My only complaint is that they often claim to have invented or originated these ideas when in fact, they pulled them from the custom rod building craft.

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I’m not surprised that many of the ideas come from custom rod builders. I have never been to an event, but would love to. I’ve only been building for about 5 years for myself and friends as a hobby. I am hooked though and the urge to always learn more remains high. I have only been on this forum a short time and have learned a lot.

I looked at some Shimano Expride and NRX rods at a local store the other day. Like Kendall, I have read a lot of good press about the Expride and NRX and wanted to see what all the fuss was about.

Mostly, when looking at commercial rods, I am interested in the blank itself. Does it have the action, power, and feel I value for a particular purpose. I have been impressed with some off the rack rods to be sure. Some not so much. Can someone invent the Pocket CCS? I would love to test out some of these blanks right in the store. It was a St. Croix rack rod (SC Avid 69MLXF) that changed my world long ago. I've been a big SC fan since.

Another aspect I study is the guide train. What type, size, number, and spacing do they use. I understand what I see on a commercial rod is a blend of factors like Production Costs....and choices in components are designed to accommodate a variety of variables for a general audience. It does not surprise me that I am often underwhelmed with the guides. On the other hand, it makes me feel better about my own choices.

After reading some recent posts about The Oddball guide layout, I swear I saw a modified version of it on a particular Expride rod. The last two guides of the Reduction Train were not the same Size rings, but they were the same Height. They used two different guide frame types: two looked like "K-H" frames and one a "Y" frame. I wonder if The Oddball was ever shown at an EXPO.

Ergonomics are something I check out closely. I find 16 mm spinning reel seats small for my hand - and I bet others would, too, if they had something to compare it to. Same counts for fly rod grips! I wish some of the cool-looking grips had a larger diameter option than just 16 and 17 mm. Seeing one on the rack can get me searching to see if I can find it in a larger size at least. On a casting rod, I find a 16 or 17 mm grip adequate because I palm the reel.

On a parallel line, I was considering adding a carbon thread barrel hood to a build until my buddy made one and I handled it. It is a sweet idea and looks very stylish, but it did not feel good to me. I see these on rods now and again. However, I loved the palm swell on some St. Croix rods I saw a long time ago, and this feature I mimic on many of my own builds. Also, Loomis used to use a Fuji HPS cork hood for spinning rods - that was a feel I really liked and an idea I borrowed. Score a few for rack poaching!

There is value in looking at it all!

In a backhanded compliment, commercial rods show what will "function" and "sell" for the general consumer out there. It will "work" just fine even if I don't like something about it.

There are also ideas to be gleaned from other hobbies and crafts: pen-making, leather-working, and air-brushing to name only a few. I have never walked around a wood-working expo the same way since.

In summary, the blank is the most essential aspect for me. I like NFC, St. Croix, Batson, and Mud Hole for certain niches. The blank is where the most important "calibration" occurs in my mind.

Todd - you will find more custom rod-building ideas per square inch at an ICRBE (EXPO) than anywhere else. You simply have to figure out a way to get to at least one of them. In the mean time, grab a subscription to Rod Maker.

Great topic!

Les Cline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> After reading some recent posts about The Oddball
> guide layout, I swear I saw a modified version of
> it on a particular Expride rod. The last two
> guides of the Reduction Train were not the same
> Size rings, but they were the same Height. They
> used two different guide frame types: two looked
> like "K-H" frames and one a "Y" frame. I wonder if
> The Oddball was ever shown at an EXPO.
>

Les,

Nearly all the commercial rod manufacturers subscribe to RodMaker.

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Great info! I just subscribed to Rodmaker Magazine

I’ve purchased two factory rods in a time period exceeding twenty years. One was a huge St. Croix liquidation of their SCV Salmon rods. The Torzite guides it carries would have cost me more. The other was a halibut rod when a trip opportunity came up with short notice. I absolutely prefer to make my own. My point in starting this wasn’t to pitch industry against custom building. I’ve learned a lot from custom builders, including Tom.

I stopped by Dick's Sporting Goods yesterday, looked at all the rods on display. I really did not see anything really new, interesting, unique, or educational. I don't mean to sound arrogant, but there really was nothing there.

I do not mean to sound dismissing of factory rods; I know there are many that are very good. One has to admit that millions of fish have been caught on them. But as a learning experience, it was of no value.

Edit: Yes , I did learn something of value, and that is that the cork quality on name brand rods is very poor, very highly filled. Which very likely will come out based on my past experience. Good argument for high quality exotic burl unless one has absolute lightest weight as a build priority. My spin builds with size 17 seats and exotic burl cork components and SS guides regularly come in at blank weight + 2 oz. One oz. is in the reel seat.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2024 10:19AM by Michael Danek.

It’s St Croix’s blank charts and their intended purposes that’s of value to me. I don’t need to go to a sporting goods store to look at the EVA real seats on their Victory series to know that I never want to do that.