I'm building a rod that will have the aluminum reel seat (https://voodoorods.com/products/alps-single-trigger-aluminum-reel-seat) glued direfectly to a glossy carbon fiber sleeve, no arbor/shim/tape needed or possible. I've glued up graphite seats before using carbon inserts and those worked fine.

Do I need to do anything different with the aluminum sleeve and the glossy carbon fiber tube? Any surface prep/light sanding needed or just proceed as usual?

Thanks!

When I epoxy aluminum I clean the surface, then steel wool it to remove the oxidation layer. It will begin to oxidize instantly so when I apply the epoxy I use emery cloth to grind in the epoxy. The epoxy keeps new oxidation from forming and the emery exposes unoxidized aluminum for the epoxy to adhere to. I have had very good success using this method.
My source for this method and the reasoning was from a McDonell Douglas engineer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/14/2024 04:37PM by Kurt Dikkers.

YES! And use West System GFlex 650 epoxy.
Herb
CTS

Read this article from the Library for some great info.

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Epoxy likes a 80 grit finish for adhesion, I would score all bonding surfaces just prior to application, Clean first with DNA.

Good question!

I'm also thinking about the use of aluminium Alps reel seats and now I'm a little bit surprised that they are not so easy to glue like Fuji carbon ones. :)

I read the article and I understand the part which speaks about preparing the blank with Scotch-Brite, but how to do this work on the inside of the reel seat?

Or is it enough just to prepare the blank ("abrade away all the shine on a section of the test rod blank") and I don't have to work nothin inside the reel seat?

And one more thing - is blank prepering with Scotch-Brite also needed if I'm using the AT Carbon reel seat?

Thank you and regards!

Tolo,

I made an inexpensive tool to prep the inside surface of a tube:

I bought a small length of solid aluminum rod from a hardware store. Then, I took a hack saw and cut a slit in the end of the rod, down its length, about 0.75 inches long. Next, cut a strip of Scotch Brite to fit the slit (about an inch wide and 2-inches long) and slide it into the "forks" of the rod. Scrub and rotate the aluminum rod or reel seat as you go. Works well!

Visually inspect the inside of the reel seat for any shiny spots after a thorough scrubbing.

One could also use a shotgun cleaning rod and patch holder in place of the aluminum rod, though the patch holder opening is not large enough for me.

I surface prep ALL mating surfaces as the article suggests.

Thank you for your reply and ideas!

Just one more thing - do you use this tool only for aluminium reel seats or for carbon reel seats too?

Regards!

Chris Rosell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Epoxy likes a 80 grit finish for adhesion, I would
> score all bonding surfaces just prior to
> application, Clean first with DNA.

Chris,

Unfortunately, that's not actually true. Epoxy prefers a smooth, deglossed surface (water break free) for best adhesion. See the article by chemist Ralph O'Quinn in the online library here.

..........

Les Cline Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tolo,
>
> I made an inexpensive tool to prep the inside
> surface of a tube:
>
> I bought a small length of solid aluminum rod from
> a hardware store. Then, I took a hack saw and cut
> a slit in the end of the rod, down its length,
> about 0.75 inches long. Next, cut a strip of
> Scotch Brite to fit the slit (about an inch wide
> and 2-inches long) and slide it into the "forks"
> of the rod. Scrub and rotate the aluminum rod or
> reel seat as you go. Works well!
>
> Visually inspect the inside of the reel seat for
> any shiny spots after a thorough scrubbing.
>
> One could also use a shotgun cleaning rod and
> patch holder in place of the aluminum rod, though
> the patch holder opening is not large enough for
> me.
>
> I surface prep ALL mating surfaces as the article
> suggests.

I ended up wrapping some scotch brite around a reamer I have, secured it tightly in place with some masking tape in 2 spots and then put it in my drill chuck. Worked great. Thanks for the ideas and walkthrough. Hopefully the bond will hold up to the torque from 100lb+ bluefin on an XH SPJ rod.

Tolo -

[www.rodbuilding.org]

I surface prep all parts that will be epoxied together, for almost all material types: graphite, aluminum, and plastic. I prep wood also if it has a hard and smooth coating (varnish or high polish). If it has a shine to it, I "de-gloss" it with Scotch Brite. Some metals may not show much change because they are very hard, but I prep them anyway. (I might resort to a 600-800 fine grit, wet/dry sand paper in such cases.)

It's easy to check to see if a material surface needs prep by putting a drop of water on it - if the water beads (like on a waxed car hood) and does not spread out, it needs some prep work. I want a water-break-free situation on the surface of all mating parts that will get epoxy. You will know break-free when you see it.

No need to overwork it. No need for grooves, gouges, scratches, or an overly rough surface - these actually make a weaker bond and may damage the material. Just get the surface to water-break-free condition and you've done the best job that can be done. (As I recall the conversation with Mr. O'Quinn, he developed this technique when the Air Force sent him and a team to experiment with laminated materials for super light and super strong airplane wings. The article above reveals what he and his team of scientists discovered!)

I do not use Scotch Brite on foam arbors, cork rings, or other materials I have reamed or sanded beforehand. These are ready to go.

If in doubt, water bead it out.

And I do NOT clean up my prepped parts with anything other than a dry, lint-free rag (or paper towel).. NO solvents for clean up as they may defeat what you are trying to achieve by leaving a residue behind.

Patrick -

I like your tube-reamer idea a lot! Easier to make your tool than mine!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2024 10:45AM by Les Cline.

Tom Kirkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chris Rosell Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Epoxy likes a 80 grit finish for adhesion, I
> would
> > score all bonding surfaces just prior to
> > application, Clean first with DNA.
>
> Chris,
>
> Unfortunately, that's not actually true. Epoxy
> prefers a smooth, deglossed surface (water break
> free) for best adhesion. See the article by
> chemist Ralph O'Quinn in the online library here.
>
> ..........

Of course I did not mean the blank, My inference to expertise is misguided. What I did omit out of just wanting to be a helping influence is that I do not scuff rod blanks with 80 grit. My knowledge comes from the automotive restoration industry.