In the interest of casting light jigs and yet still having the power to fight powerful fish (think bonefish) how 'bout a 7 foot 2 or 3 inch 3 piece travel blank with an ERN of 15 on one side and 20 on the other? Strong spine oriented right, it would load well with light jigs on the casting motion yet have more power to handle the fish on the fighting mode. Does not seem impossible, but the standard "group think" is that spine is a bad thing. Make it stronger and let it work for you in this special case.

OK, nay-sayers, unload.

The problem is that you'd have to cast on that particular axis every time.

The better idea, and it's been in used for half a century now, is to have very fast light tip rod such as we see with live bait models and Hot Shot rods. These rods have tremendous power but remain capable of casting very light lures. The light power tip doesn't get in the way of the rod's tremendous power further back and that area doesn't interfere with casting the light lures.

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The best rod I've ever used that had a tip to handle light weights but the power for large fish and heavy cover is the 1st generation Megabass XX Perfect Pitch. It's a 7'2" Heavy/XF rod (1050g/80deg). I could effectively pitch a ZCraw Jr with a 3/16oz weight with perfect accuracy and distance yet the rod could handle yanking large fish out of heavy cover.

I've yet to find a comparable blank or factory rod with the same power and tip. The PB731HXF is the closest I've built personally, but its a touch less powerful and the tip doesn't have the same precision with light baits. I can find the power easily (anything around 1000g IP), the tip action is a little harder to find, but the combination seems to be the needle in the haystack. I'm still looking :)

I might have to checkout some hotshot blanks like Tom mentioned.

I've tried the very light fast tip and it doesn't cast all that well. Timing of the release is critical, accuracy not that good. At least I have not found one that works all that well. Slower actions work better, in my opinion.

Casting on the "same axis" would not be a big issue. Most of the time in using these rods I'm casting directly overhead with two hands. Same axis//plane almost every time, especially when going for distance. Casting off axis would result in some compromise between the two conditions, but would not cause any problems that I can think of.

I'd like to hear from some manufacturers/designers, too.

If you could still buy the blanks the 3 piece GLX 9000 hot shot blank would have been perfect, mine sure is. NFC has a bunch of the HS 7600-2 in IM and HM, the HS 760-2 if you think you need more power, though I doubt you'd need it, I have caught bones, steelhead, coho and 25 lb. chinook salmon on my GLX, no problem. Also there is the HS 701-2 but I know nothing about it. There are some 4 piece travel rods with maybe the right power listed as fast action that I know nothing about also.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2024 03:09PM by Spencer Phipps.

The spine is not a physical thing - it is created by a combination of manufacturing anomalies. So to increase the spine effect, the manufacturer would have to have control over these anomalies and be able to manipulate them as required. Obviously if such control were possible, they would be building rod blanks with no spine effect whatsoever.

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The spine may be an anomaly but it surely is a physical thing. We can measure it. We get different ERN's on and off spine. I think the manufacturers are trying to minimize spine, but if they "didn't try so hard," and worked to emphasize it, they might get a larger difference between the two conditions. A builder friend of mine has an Italian blank that has no detectable spine. Interesting.

Tom and Spencer, what are the AA's of typical hot shot blanks? I would guess close to 90 degrees?

Logan, what you had is not that far off from my last rod which measured AA of 81. It's power is about 600 grams, less powerful than yours. If yours has more power and the same AA its tip had to be stiffer than mine. Maybe you are a better caster than I.

The power of 600 grams, about 20 ERN, is fine for bones. I have even caught a 4 foot shark on it. I believe it weighed well over 25 pounds. It's the casting with light jigs that is not what I want. I now have in my hands a 7-3in with ERN 15 AA71 which casts much better, more accurate, less sensitive to timing of the line release. And it casts a little farther. So with 20 ERN about right for fighting, and 15/71 about right for casting, I was thinking why not engineer a blank that can give both? I wonder what Gary would say.

Spine is a physical effect, but not a physical part, piece, section, etc.

The last Hot Shot blank I measured had an AA of about 84.

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Thanks for the hot shot AA. Not far off from my blank's 81.

I just don't get your argument about spine. The difference between power on one side of it and the other is measurable, like any other attribute of the blank Like length and weight. You seem to be dismissing it as an attribute of the blank when in fact it exists, and has an effect on the performance of the blank/rod. If it could be enhanced rather than eliminated, it might offer a tool for a more effective rod.

Weight is not a physical part, place, section, etc, either. Neither is length. Or power. Or Action. Or color. Or. . . .

What am I missing?

I guess what I'm saying is that you can't "enhance" spine other than by chance. It's an unfortunate "defect" of rod blank due to the process used to make them. Many companies have tried to eliminate it but none have been successful thus far.

When I say spine is not a physical thing my meaning is that there is no physical beam, splint, etc., installed in the blank to create it. If you unrolled a blank and asked someone to find the spine, they couldn't. There's nothing to see. It's an effect not a thing.

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My two cents.

You have the bonefish/sailfish types that are very fast, but aren't really powerful, compared to fish like grouper and amberjack. Those fish (IMHO) need a tip that allows one to cast what is needed but might need a more forgiving backbone "lockup" to handle a sudden high speed surge close to the boat. Hot shot blanks might be a little too quick on the lockup and perhaps a live bait/popping blank might be a wiser choice.

Farther away from the boat, and with mono, hot shots work a treat. I am very glad Tom mentioned them to me. Still, I find a composite live bait blank (perhaps on the longer side) to work best for me for all around use on those fish capable of long blistering runs.

Strangely, I'll take the hot shot when I need the ability to cup the spool and stop a fish dead in it's tracks. Something like a snook/LMB. Fish that make a determined run for cover but don't have that much raw power. Not going to try and stop a grouper/amberjack with one (or a muskie blank for that matter).

I won't touch the spine discussion. IIRC blanks fail due to compression, not elongation. You might be building on the stiffest axis but I don't think you are building on the one that will take the most force before failure.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Building on the stiffest axis (this isn't the spine) does offer the greatest power or deadlift capacity for the very reason you mention - more material on the compression side of the blank. [www.rodbuilding.org]

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I think I should rephrase the idea-Emphasize rather than try to eliminate the difference between the stiffest and least stiff axes of the blank then build accordingly to take advantage of the difference.

The article implies that there is some control over this-I expect that it is in fact practical if it were considered advantageous.

I expect Thomas Edison was told a few times that "It just isn't going to work."

A lot of things Edison did turned out not to work. At any rate, the only control you'd have over what you suggest is cutting the pattern to move the overlap to a different point. But even that is going to be a bit haphazard as it is only one of maybe seven or eight variables that create what rod builders call "spine." Even if you got lucky, the difference between the softest (spine) and stiffest axis could never be made to be more than a very, very few percent. And just to be clear, the softest and stiffest axis are almost never 180 degrees opposite. Another problem.. But I'm sure you know that.

In the case of a blank with light casting ability and yet very powerful lifting capacity, there are other ways to achieve this which are much more easy to control and even dial in to a specific amount for either. And such blanks already exist. The fast taper live bait blanks in glass with an outer wrap of carbon for a distance that stops short of the tip area is one. Hot Shot blanks are another.

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Well, like Edison, some of my ideas just don't pan out. I should mention that I've got what is almost a hotshot rod and don't like it anywhere near as well for casting as the 15/71 I've mentioned. It could be that the GLX mentioned earlier would be the answer.

Tom: "The fast taper live bait blanks in glass with an outer wrap of carbon for a distance that stops short of the tip area is one" Please give me a model number of what you think will work. Thanks for your comments.

I'd really still like to hear from a blank designer/manufacturer.

The Seeker CBS Series for instance. RodGeeks had something similar a few years ago. They might still offer them.

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thanks!

I've been trying to find CBS on Seeker's web site to no avail. Nothing that looks right at Rodgeeks. Still looking.

I think that's the correct nomenclature (CBS) but I might have it wrong. So look under their live bait and/or crankbait series.

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Try the Seeker CLB Series. Calstar Grafighter as well. For a budget blank, the Baston/Rainshadow RCLB. Rod Geeks X-Comp for something more towards the bottom fishing/party boat need.

All of these are more King Mackeral blanks than bonefish.

You can go pretty light for bonefish. I have a (so called 5 weight cascade composites fly rod) that will do as well as a NFC freshwater series blank. You only need to fish about 3 pounds of drag.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.