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Guide Size help
Posted by: Rick Boley (104.220.81.---)
Date: September 09, 2023 10:05AM

I'm building a NFC 905-2. 8-17# blank. I'lll be using 14# mono. I am using the New Guide concept system and have a question. I can't decide on running guide height. The systems says to use size 10 but the XYTLG 10 is pretty tall.

I have the Alps XYTLG in size 6 but am having 2nd thoughts. The Alps lowrider XPFLLG in 7 has a lower profile but they don't make it in an 8.

Should I go with the XPFLLG in 7 or the XYTLG in 8

Your help is appreciated.

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Daryl Ferguson (47.214.193.---)
Date: September 09, 2023 10:27AM

The “systems” aren’t the ones fishing it. You are! Personally, I like smaller guides so that’s the route *I* would go, but this is why they’re called “custom” rods. Make it to your liking and don’t worry about what the “systems”, me or anyone thinks about it.

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: September 09, 2023 11:15AM

Spinning or casting?
Norm

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: September 09, 2023 11:24AM

You're running guides should never be anything but an XF framed guide, they store better, they are lighter, and they fare better walking through the brush when you're bank fishing. A #7 XF would be just fine with your line size. Going from a tall #10 guide immediately to a tip top is just silly, disregard that system, it's bogus. Is this a Midwest rod?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2023 11:33AM by Spencer Phipps.

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Les Cline (---)
Date: September 09, 2023 12:36PM

Rick,

Spin or cast, I personally would NOT go larger than a 6 ring for the Running Guides - and would prefer a ring size of 5. Keep the tip section as light as possible with the running guides that will do the job.

The running guides can be downsized because the line is already flowing in a straight line at that point, and they only need to be large enough to pass leader knots - or if icing is involved. (Compared to the diameter of #14 mono, the I.D. of even a 5 guide is like putting a baseball inside a 5-gallon bucket the way I see it.)

The bigger factor is taming the coils of line off a spinning reel through the Reduction Train to the Choke guide. It strikes me that #14 mono may be a bit 'coily' coming off the spool and need some well-considered management. The line being pulled off the spool of a casting reel is fundamentally different, but the placement, height, and ring size of the Butt Guide is still important to prevent line over runs and minimize oscillation.

I like the refinements of the Fuji KR Concept to the NGC. However, #14 mono is right at the limits of the sweet spot of the KR which is around #12 mono and under, and #30 braid and under, IMO. The NGC may be better with lines over this range.

My take for a KR Concept Build:

Spinning Rod Guides with #14 Mono:

Reduction Train: Fuji KL-H 25 ; KL-H 12 ; KL- L 7 (three guides) You might be able to get away with the next smaller size guide group of KL-H 20 ; KL-H 10 ; KL-M 5 or KL-6L. Test to see what works.
Choke Guide: KB 5 or 5.5 (one guide)
Belly Guide: KB 5 or 5.5 (one or two guides)
Running Guides: KT - 5 or 5.5 (6 to 7 guides - number will vary with a static test)
Tip Top: LG 5 or 5.5 to match running guide ring size. (one guide)

Casting Rod Guides with #14 Mono:

Reduction Guides: Fuji KW10 ; KW 5.5 (two guides). I would also try an RV6 here with the next guide being a KB 4.5 or 5. Test to see what works.
Choke Guide: will be the first guide after the Reduction Guides: KB 4.5 or 5 (one guide)
Belly Guides: KB 4.5 or 5 (two guides)
Running Guides: KT 4.5 or 5 (6 to 7 guides - number will vary with static test)
Tip Top: LG 4.5 or 5 to match running guide ring size. (one guide)

That's how I would think about it. If you prefer the NGC, that will work, too!

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 09, 2023 02:46PM

Not sure what system you're looking at. Guide size should be correct - this means using the smallest guides that will do the job they are required to do, and no larger. You would also want the lowest frame guides you can find for running guides.

..............

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Rick Boley (104.220.81.---)
Date: September 09, 2023 07:32PM

Spinning rod for Silvers. Thanks for the clarifications.

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Daryl Ferguson (---)
Date: September 09, 2023 07:59PM

Extra emphasis should be placed on the step down guides (especially the butt guide) on a spinning rod. The reel choice (size) will be a determining factor. Avoid a drastic angle to the butt guide.

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Michael Tarr (---)
Date: September 09, 2023 08:30PM

I’m curious to which system you used to find this out. Besides that, any of those sizes would work for 14lbs mono line. From what I gather the choke guide would be a running guide not a reduction guide. To me the XYTLG’s are reduction style guide’s so the XPFLLG 7 would be my choice.

Can you share the guide train you plan to use from butt to tip?

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: September 10, 2023 01:00AM

Salmon/Steelhead rods in this power are something that gets a lot of use and diversified presentations, about as universal as you can get. That's the reason for the 7 mm runners if you ever go the braid for knots/fluorocarbon route later on to throw a few twitching jigs, bobber stops or other hardware a 7 mm is the way to go to ensure you pass the knots in all conditions.

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Michal Rozycki (---.24.218.56.ipv4.supernova.orange.pl)
Date: September 10, 2023 03:27AM

Size 6 (or 5 for that matter) will do fine, however if you plan to use the rod below freezing point, 7 might be a better idea due to the inevitable ice buildup.

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Re: Guide Size help
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 10, 2023 07:27AM

Michael Tarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m curious to which system you used to find
> this out. Besides that, any of those sizes would
> work for 14lbs mono line. From what I gather the
> choke guide would be a running guide not a
> reduction guide. To me the XYTLG’s are reduction
> style guide’s so the XPFLLG 7 would be my
> choice.
>
> Can you share the guide train you plan to use from
> butt to tip?


You are correct - the choke guide is the first running guide.

.........

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