I bought a couple of sets recently. They were on sale. I'll get around to it one day.

Sam Kirk Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have read the the Microwave Air guides are the
> best guides ever. I bit the bait and ordered a set
> for a 6'-6" rod. This is going on a bass rod. Has
> anybody try the Microwave Air Guides?

The idea of them being the “best guides ever” seems extremely disingenuous. They may function adequately, but nearly everything about them appears to be designed around being inexpensive to produce. The running guides appear to be very simple stampings that are bent to shape. I doubt the microwaves cast better than a properly designed “KR” based system. Data shared on this site indicates the microwave system casts slight shorter distances. I doubt they are lighter than a titanium framed, silicon nitride ringed system. I certainly wouldn’t want the weight of the extra steel in the frame of the running guides out towards the rod tip. I doubt they are as corrosion resistant as a few systems. I doubt they are as durable as any ceramic ringed system. The last rod I would probably choose to build would be a spinning rod that really isn’t configured to safely handle braided line over time. Over half of my baitcasting rods never see braid, but it’s my first choice when spinning.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/25/2023 11:53PM by Kendall Cikanek.

Rick Hall Wrote:
> ...
> The standard steel rings without PVD are about
> 150-250 hardness, Functional PVD is about a
> hardness of 500-600. Our Adaman PVD is about
> 1000-1100 on the hardness scale.
> ...

Rick, What typically is your target with PVD?
Is there anything we, as rodbuilders, should be concerned about?
For example...can a ceramic application chip or crack?

Chris Catignani Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rick Hall Wrote:
> > ...
> > The standard steel rings without PVD are about
> > 150-250 hardness, Functional PVD is about a
> > hardness of 500-600. Our Adaman PVD is about
> > 1000-1100 on the hardness scale.
> > ...
>
> Rick, What typically is your target with PVD?
> Is there anything we, as rodbuilders, should be
> concerned about?
> For example...can a ceramic application chip or
> crack?

Hi Chris,

We have a couple of different PVD methods we use. First is our Adaman PVD coating which is our hardest as well as smoothest which we utilize for any guide that the line will run across the ring or frame such as fly guides as well as stainless rings. We also use a functional PVD for our frames which is not as hard as Adaman but extremely durable and scratch resistant. Several manufacturers including G. Loomis, St.Croix, Edge, and many others are using our HB, HU functional PVD on guides with ceramic rings. St. Criox, Edge, most of the fly manufacturers, and many others in the US have moved or are moving to our Adaman-coated guides that the line runs across the rings because of their durability.

As for ceramics, which we are the only guide factory that produces all of our own, yes they can crack or chip. Normally they chip or crack due to abuse from the anglers hitting them on a hard surface. Silicon nitride is by far the most durable, smooth, and lightest on the market. It is slightly less hard than SIC, but the other properties make it a much better overall guide ring including some flexibility. Silicon Nitride has many methods of production and some are much better than others, we utilize a method that was developed to produce ball bearings in jet engines.

None of the ceramics on the market will groove but some are better than others.

Rick, if Seaguide is producing a higher quality PVD coating that protects the steel underneath longer, that's great. But to be clear, the hardness ratings of PVD coatings are what's considered surface hardness and should not be compared to hardness ratings of true ceramics such as SiN or Zr. With enough use, PVDs will eventually wear through and expose the material underneath. There's tons of empirical data that supports this in the world of high-end watches. If your company has perfected PVD's in TiN, TiAN, TiCN, etc. that protect the substrate indefinitely, you may be on to something big.

-Geoff

Geoff,

You are correct that the metal underneath the platings is not made harder. The thickness and hardness of the vapor depositions are both very important and make a huge difference in the wear of the rings. But to be clear your statement that Microwave, Seaguide, or brand X versions are no different is not close to being accurate. There are big differences between them and how they perform.

Rick Hall
Global Sales Manager
SeaGuide Corporation
406-750-2122
www.sea-guide.com

Hello All.

Here are a few of the many articles listed for guides:

Vol/Issue..........Article................................................................Author..........................Page
14/6 Guide Evolution Design and Properties Past & Present... By C. Boyd Pfeiffer. 30
10/6 Guides & Rod Blank Flex. .........// ................... ............................................26
11/5 Guides, Micro, Misinformation and Myths......................... By Multi Contributors. 16
14/5 Guides, The Microwave Guide. .......................................By Doug Hannon... 24

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Chris Catignani Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sam Kirk Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I feel better now. I purchased a set before I
> > asked the pro's.
>
> Speaking for myself...I'm hardly a pro. But
> American Tackle does have a good line of
> products.
> You cant fish braid on those Air guides though...


I fish braid on mine with no issue! and have been since they came out. Thousands of walleye Smallmouth and pike. The great lakes are busting at the seams with them right now. we've had record hatch's for the last 5 years in a row as well as bait fish required to fatten them up! What are you fishing in a Volcanic swamp????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2023 10:33AM by Jay Dubay.

If the microwave air guides are the ones with the smaller guide inside the bigger guide, I just had a rod built for me using those. But mine is for casting swimbaits, so I have a casting rod not a spinning rod.

When I casted with it last night at the river just to see how it felt, it felt real nice. But again I have zero science to back it up.

Over the years, if I have ever felt that there was a need; I would use a si or equivalent rod tip top to insure non grooving for a particular type of rod that might be susceptible to line grooving due to the line and or type of use.
But, other than the tip top - no issues at all with any line in any condition used with non ceramic rod guides.

Best wishes.