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Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Rick Fike (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 13, 2023 06:45PM

I’m relatively new to rod building. Ive only built 10 or so.

What is the difference between a mag bass blank and a spin jig blank?

How do I decide which one to use?

Ive talked to sales reps at two different manufacturers and they don't know.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 13, 2023 07:06PM

Which two companies couldn't explain the difference for you?

It's pretty much all in the taper - a spin jig rod is usually faster action than a Magbass. I'm not sure if there's a power difference - but it really doesn't matter because companies just make up power ratings and they rarely mean more than to the same as saying it's cold out or it's warm out. You'll know to wear more or less layers - but not to wear a tank top and shorts or 2 jackets and a scarf with gloves.

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: February 13, 2023 09:44PM

Rick try a few searches, (all dates) should be a lot of info on this topic.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: February 13, 2023 10:48PM

EL,
That's not always the case. SJ aren't always faster actioned.. It's varies by manufacturer. i know lamiglas made some SJ blanks that flexed deeper into the blank than a typical MB taper. I heard some loomis SJ and MB blanks were actually the same blanks just re categorized but I never compared apples to apples so IDK for sure

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: February 14, 2023 12:50AM

@Matt I agree its certainly not always, i never meant to imply that. Would you not say it's "usually" the case that SJ blanks are faster than MB blanks?

If I'm mistaken then I very much would like to hear what others have to say about what makes an SJ an SJ and an MB an MB because I've been under that impression for a bit now haha

Building rods in MA, Building the community around the world

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: February 14, 2023 02:58AM

SJ, Spin Jig rods come in a much greater variety of powers than MB Mag Bass rods do, simply because back in the day you needed blanks that could maximize the capabilities and presentation capabilities of each type of reel. Smallmouth and smaller spiny rays needed lighter line presentations to be effective. SJ blanks were used by many built as casting rods back in the 80's to throw the new smaller presentation choices that were becoming available.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 14, 2023 07:05AM

Maybe I've been wrong, but I always thought that Mag bass blanks had a very thick, powerful , butt section that resulted in a faster action, and that in general, they had faster actions than spin jig blanks. Action, not power.

The only Mag bass blanks I've built have been pretty fast, usually about 80 degrees AA.

Without CCS data, it's like El says, you're talking "warm and cold."

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 14, 2023 07:43AM

I don't know what "normally" constitutes, but I have read the same thing that El mentioned, that generally, SJ blanks have faster actions than MB blanks.

Last year I purchased 3 blanks from NFC during one of their sales where you got increasing discounts based on the number of blanks you purchased. All of the blanks were from their IM line up, with one of the blanks being an MB 704, and another of the blanks being an SJ 704. I've lost the paper I had with all of my CCS data for the rods I've built, but I do remember that the SJ had a faster action, and slightly less power. I do remember that the power difference was 33 grams. 566 grams for the MB blank, and 533 grams for the SJ blank.

I'm a little foggy on the AA's for the blanks, but as I remember, the SJ had an AA of 73 and the MB an AA of 70. The SJ was faster, but not by much.

Anyhow ...... I can't imagine, unless it is a light powered blank, an MB blank with an AA of 80. When I see that kind of AA I automatically think drop shot rod, or some kind of lighter powered spinning blank.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: February 14, 2023 07:44AM

Rick,
The question that you are asking, is simply a definition of a particular company putting a name to a particular series of blanks.

You might check out the Batson line of rod blanks.

[batsonenterprises.com]

They have changed their catalog and a browsed through the catalog and I did not see any mention of either of the words that you were wondering about. i.e. Mag Bass, or Spin Jig.

However, in past years a Mag bass normally referred to a more powerful blank that was normally set up as a casting rod and that was used by bass fisherfolks horsing big bass out of heavy cover.
On the other hand, a Spin jig normally referred to a much less powerful rod, normally set up as a spinning rod, throwing much lighter baits in more open water and for fish that normally were very light biting fish that needed the ability to sense the lighter bites that went with these fish.

However, if you browse the current Batson Catalog, you see that the listings are directed at a particular type of rod build using a particular material - and in ratings that are important to distinguish between a very low powered rod in contrast with different blanks made of different materials for fishing for different fish that needed the raw power of the different materials and different types of construction to achieve that purpose.

In reality, the term Mag Bass and the term Spin Jig - could not be identified by the speed of the blank - i.e. slow, moderate, fast, or extra fast. Rather, in the past, it was more a difference in the power of the blank.k

But, at the end of the day, it is simply a definition of a particular blank that many folks liked to use for a particular purpose.

Now, with the use of different systems of a definition perhaps these names now have less importance.

Rather, look at the overall power, speed, length and typical uses of the rod as defined by the manufacture by what ever name that they might choose.

------------
For example, look at the web site for NFC blanks:
[northforkcomposites.com]

Go to the section of the web site to browse the selectin of blanks that yo would want to use for a particular type of fish, and fishing style and make your choices.

Take care

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 14, 2023 08:14AM

AmTak Bushido MB68 Blank 80 MagBassCast 12-20 3/8-1 MagBass AA 77 ERN 25.8
Fuji Point Blank PB731MXF Blank 87 Cast 8-14 1/8-5/8 Med/Xfast AA 82 ERN 25.3

EX fast actions are not limited to "drop shot" rods of low power. Here are two examples, the first being a blank called "mag bass."

One of the highest volume blank makers, one of our sponsors, has blanks listed with "medium power" that range from about ERN 12 to about 20, probably a larger range than that. I don't have all their data. But without CCS you are simply dealing with a "crap shoot." Regardless of the description of fish, technique, power, or action. From my experience this is the worst actor (blank source) regarding subjective descriptions. Most others are better but there still can be surprises when you don't have CCS.

Roger has a mag bass with an AA of 70, and I have one with an AA of 77, (BIG difference) so I guess we can conclude that a mag bass can be just about anything for action. I have a recently purchased "state of the art" glass baitcaster that's called "moderate" action, and it's AA is 80 (ERN 20). Its proportions are a lot like what I've always called mag bass, with the thick butt and very fast action. Certainly not what most would call a moderate action.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 14, 2023 09:05AM

Sometimes they are the exact same blank under two different categories. Check the specs to be sure.

...........

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Rick Fike (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 14, 2023 09:11AM

Thank you all so much. I’m a bass fisherman. What started all this was trying to find the best blank for a weightless Senko rod.

I was looking at the Bashido blanks and thats where my confusion began.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 14, 2023 09:27AM

Michael, when I said I can't imagine unless it was a light powered blank, an MB blank with an AA in the neighborhood of 80, it wasn't to say that they don't exist. I already knew they did because I have read the specs for the Point Blank blank that you mentioned. I meant that I couldn't imagine using a blank with any kind of power, with a tip that light. The very fast actions that Point Blank blanks have, especially considering the power some of the blanks have, is one of the reasons I have yet to build on one. And I'd definitely have to handle the Bushido blank before I purchased it.

Without actually handling one of the blanks, I don't know if I would like a rod with AAs that would lead me to believe they have softer tip sections than I prefer. I mean you gotta admit that the specs for the blanks that you posted would lead someone to believe that they have a light tip. And for blanks that have IPs approaching and exceeding800 grams, I would say they have a very light tip.

IMO they're one of those blanks where CCS numbers don't tell a complete enough story

And clearly you are talking about NFC being the ones that have the all over the place named power ratings. And I agree. They're all over the place. But even if you have CCS numbers, some of the named powers given by various manufacturers can be a bit of a surprise. For instance .... a blank with an ERN of 25.3 (approaching an IP of 800 grams) being labeled as medium power, is .................. surprising.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 14, 2023 10:10AM

David Baylor Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> And clearly you are talking about NFC being the
> ones that have the all over the place named power
> ratings. And I agree. They're all over the place.
> But even if you have CCS numbers, some of the
> named powers given by various manufacturers can be
> a bit of a surprise. For instance .... a blank
> with an ERN of 25.3 (approaching an IP of 800
> grams) being labeled as medium power, is
> .................. surprising.


No surprise. The manufacturer's ratings are always correct because they are based on a particular manufacturer's own rating system, not the CCS. And those rating systems are not the same from category to category.

And, the CCS does not rate anything as a "medium power" or otherwise. You cannot attempt to match any manufacturer's action or power descriptions to the CCS. There is no correlation between them.

...........

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Norman Miller (Moderator)
Date: February 14, 2023 10:25AM

In my experience, SJ and MB blanks from the same manufacturer with the same power designation, are very similar to each other in their mid and butt sections, but are slightly different in their tip sections. The SJ has a slightly faster and softer tip section than the MB. The faster softer tip supposedly allows it to load better with lighter lures. When I’ve done CCS analyses on the NFC MB736 and SJ736 X-rays, as well as the MHX MB843 and SJ843, the SJs are a little faster and are more powerful. Although I have built on other SJ and MB models, I have not directly compared similar MB and SJ blank pairs from other manufacturers.
Norm

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: February 14, 2023 10:55AM

Rick Fike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
trying to find the best
> blank for a weightless Senko rod.
>

I realize you weren't looking for opinions on blanks, but I'll offer one. NFC SJ 736 X ray.

Super sensitive. Tip loads well with 4" but IMO the sweet spot as far as actual Senkos go, is 5", and it has good power. Not a blank I would consider a good blank for pulling fish out of heavy cover, but more than enough for moderate cover.

Definitely a blank worth considering.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Michael Tarr (50.238.140.---)
Date: February 14, 2023 02:12PM

The only Bashido I’ve bought was a CB68 medium and it’s under powered. I hooked a 3lb LM and I had zero leverage and had to wait until the bass ran out of gas to get it off the hook. The data shared here had it as a med-light and I’d agree.

Not sure if all Bushido blanks are under powered but I wont buy another one. After buying a blank and parts just to find out I built a $200 crappie rod is disappointing.


Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 14, 2023 06:23PM

>>"Without actually handling one of the blanks, I don't know if I would like a rod with AAs that would lead me to believe they have softer tip sections than I prefer. I mean you gotta admit that the specs for the blanks that you posted would lead someone to believe that they have a light tip. And for blanks that have IPs approaching and exceeding800 grams, I would say they have a very light tip."

The Point Blank has a softer tip than the Mag bass by a bunch. The Bushido Mag bass is a pretty powerful feeling rod. With its higher power and slower action the tip is much different from, much stiffer than the PB. The PB is a more versatile rod, handling a lot of jobs well. The longer the rod the more likely that a very fast action will work well. IMHO.

As long as the manufacturers continue to publish their misleading subjective descriptions, the more money we waste. With my "surprises" I build them and give them away. Often to charities. Maybe this confusion is intentional so we keep buying blanks we don't want.

Regarding 800 grams being called medium. Ignore the medium. The 800 grams tells the story. I have yet to be surprised by a CCS power number. The blank is what the CCS number says it is.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 15, 2023 06:03AM

>>"The manufacturer's ratings are always correct because they are based on a particular manufacturer's own rating system, not the CCS. And those rating systems are not the same from category to category.

And, the CCS does not rate anything as a "medium power" or otherwise. You cannot attempt to match any manufacturer's action or power descriptions to the CCS. There is no correlation between them."

While it may be correct that the subjective descriptions are always correct according to that manufacturers own rating system, they are of little value to us builders since we don't know what their system is. We have no way of knowing the relative powers of Brand A's mag bass blanks vs their own spin jig blanks, and no way of knowing the relative power of Brand A's mag bass blanks vs Brand B's mag bass blanks, or crankbait blanks, or any other blanks. If the descriptions were of real value we wouldn't be having a debate about the difference between mag bass blanks and spin jig blanks. It's obvious that we all don't see it the same way, and the reason is clear. We don't understand their rating/description systems. I sincerely belive that with one brand, there isn't even a clear understanding of it within their own organization.

Regarding no correlation between subjective descriptors and CCS, there is no reason other than tradition and inertia that there cannot be a correlation. Of course a transition to a "coordinated-correlated rating system," (call it CCRS-how appropriate) would have to be managed, but it's not impossible. It would not even be difficult. Except for tradition and inertial. The first post has a suggestion which unsurprisingly, has been ignored.

Re: Spin jig or mag bass
Posted by: Matt Ruggie (---)
Date: February 15, 2023 09:29AM

El, i.think it really comes down to the ccs numbers is really all I meant. Like ya said in your post it's like saying it's warm or it's cold.

I say this, sounds like you are correct when it comes to NFC tho. Looks like as the rule their SJ blanks are faster and more powerful than the MB equivalent. Now the question is ...are some of those blanks actually what most would consider a "spin jig" blank? I think Spencer's description is spot on when it comes to what spin jig blanks were designed and used for. Once ya get into blanks with the power in the range of MH to H casting rods, can ya really say that's a true Spin Jig blank just cause it has an "SJ" in its model number?

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