I have some inexpensive 9’6” (10-30 lb) 2 piece factory rods setup for trolling salmon, and am thinking to modify the current guide configuration to a spiral wrap. This would involve moving 1 existing guide and adding 1 more guide, and both would be the transition guides in the spiral (successive 60 degree offsets). My question involves having the spiral transition guides span the ferrule.

Is there a problem if one of the two transition guides is located right on the female ferrule wrap? I might imagine that this location could create torque to unseat the ferruled rod while in use. When trolling in a rod holder the rod does buck mildly, but constantly, using 360 flashers and 4-16 oz of weight.

Here's another thought - just move all the guides, except the butt guide, to the bottom. Then go back and add one additional guide between the butt guide and what is now the first 180 degree guide. That's really all you have to do.

You do not have to transition the line to the bottom of the rod - it'll naturally go there if you allow it to.

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Is a single offset guide (90 degrees) enough to transition line to the bottom? Any particular spacing? The guides appear to be Fuji BSVOG (or copies of them) and I want to keep that profile

As it stands now, with the rod assembled conventionally with all guides on top and the rod under extreme load (i.e. big fish!), the line can touch the blank in 2 places: between the first and second butt section guides, and between the second butt guide and the 3rd guide (which is on the top section). It seems it might need another guide in there, so I figured I’d add one and reposition one, near equally spaced and spiraled, kill two birds at once. And flip the top section 180 degrees to automatically get all those guides underneath

You don't have to transition the line to the bottom - it'll go there naturally. The 90 degree is only there to keep the line off the rod blank as it moves to the first 180. You could even leave it off and the rod will work fine, but the line will lightly touch the blank between the 0 and first 180 guide. Don't adjust the spacing to accommodate the 90 degree guide - it is an additional to, not part of the regular guide spacing.

Once the guides are on the bottom, the line can't touch the rod blank. You shouldn't need more guides.

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What Tom is describing is the "simple spiral," and it works just fine. Just locate the guides where they want to be with a stress test and if one ends up on the ferrule, wrap it there. For your trolling use, you don't even have to worry about how they cast, but simple spirals cast just fine. All the complex spiral recipes are just a waste of time.

This is very helpful, thanks. I’ve not used spiral wraps before (mostly fly rod builds), but “simple spiral” and “bumper guide” provided key words for more reading. It all makes sense now. Thanks again.

Flipping the tip section upside down is clever and will save you a lot of time removing and rewrapping guides. More than likely you will only end up moving a couple and adding the extra guide at 90. I think you will like the rod this way if you give it a fair chance.They just handle the fish so much better when the guides are on the bottom.

How many guides do you have on the butt section of the rod? If one, all you have to do is add the bumper guide. If two, the second guides would be repositioned at the 180 position and a bumper guide added between the butt guide and the second guide. With the running guides in the tip section all being at 180 you probably don’t need to add more runners, since the line will not be touching the blank, it now like a spinning rod. Spiral wrapped rods tend to use fewer guides than do conventionally warped casting rods.
Norm

If so many rod builders proclaim the necessity to avoid line contact to the blank on a conventional guides-on-top casting rod or line-slap on a spinning rod, why would line being allowed to contact the blank on a spiral wrapped rod be exempt / any different? I am here to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Good question, Mark. Why would line contact be allowed on a guide, or tiptop? Much more aggressive than the blank being kissed by the line. Might be that we really overthink a lot of stuff here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2023 04:43PM by Michael Danek.

Is the line pressing down on the blank or even going below it? Or is the line just skirting and touching the side of the blank as it passes by? I have not had any problems from it personally but put a bumper or line rub prevention guide, whatever you want to call it, at that location. Great set up and just makes more sense than many other spiral wrap systems. Works like a charm.

The interline rods had the line touching the blank all along the length. They worked and were very stable. Just too much trouble threading them up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2023 05:55PM by Mike Ballard.