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NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: El Bolinger (50.233.0.---)
Date: November 16, 2022 02:01PM

Hey all,

I seen some info posted about the CCS and AA for the NEO, but I'm wondering how the NEO AA is measured when it is advertised as having 3 separate and distinct AA per the NFC website with pictures to show the difference under load.

Can anybody share their experience with measurements or actual use with this blank?

Does anybody have any TNF data on these NFC blanks?

Many thanks

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: November 16, 2022 02:20PM

I imagine a lot of rods have a distinct AA if you measure it under different loads and distances, I however don't see the value there. If you have no set standard, you have no set values to compare other things to.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Leslie Cline (---)
Date: November 16, 2022 02:38PM

El Bolinger,

What is your intended use for this blank? Do you have a specific use or parameters in mind?

I ask because there may be multiple blanks that can serve the same purpose, technique, or line/power needs.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Tyler Reinert (---)
Date: November 16, 2022 03:07PM

I'm interested in the NEO XH blank for throwing large swimbaits and flairhawk/bucktails in the 2oz range. Haven't been able to find out much about it.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Leslie Cline (---)
Date: November 16, 2022 03:59PM

I'm not experienced with the NEO line. They seem intriguing....but also enigmatic.

We need more readily available info and results with the NEO line of rods.

I have built on the NFC SWB806 (#10-20 line; 1/2-3 oz. lure; IP= 800; AA = 65) and it is a lot of rod! Plenty of what I want to throw: S-Waver 168's and 200's, and the larger swimbaits for the bass I'm going to tangle with here in Kansas..
And it doubles for an excellent blue cat rod in the winter time when the BIG blues go shallow in the early spring.

Unless BIG musky fishing, I don't think I'd need a bigger stick than that. Even northern Manitoba, Canada Lakers. They get GIANTS through the ICE on little 3-foot Med. Heavy rods. The 806 is great for many situations.

You want to go Klash, Mothers, and the likes of truly giant glides? For Teener-Bass in Cali, or the South? Then I might suggest another rod.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 16, 2022 07:42PM

The CCS process defines the deflection at 1/3 the length of the blank and the AA is what it is when deflected to that distance. If you're talking CCS there is only one answer for IP/ERN and AA. It doesn't matter whether the blank has any of the (hokey) deflection points mentioned. If you are measuring the angle of the tip at any deflection other than the 1/3 length point, it is not CCS. It is something else.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Aaron Petersen (12.144.64.---)
Date: November 17, 2022 08:16AM

IMO the NEO (765) is one of the exceptions to the rule where CCS does not paint a complete picture. While it is a fast AA the recovery is much different than most blanks of that AA. It is also quite strong in the back. I just decided to buy a few and test them the old fashioned way. On the water!

You can most definitely isolate and measure individual sections of the blank using the CCS method. It will be hard to standardize or really use for a base of comparison, but it can be done. Remember the point of CCS is a standardized test for the use of comparison. If you try to compare section to section the testing could only compare rods of the same length.

If you want to exercise your mind then ponder this. The NEO(765) is taper-less for the last 6". When you measure CCS from the end at 7'6" your numbers are different than if you measure from 7'. Yet the rod bend profile will be exactly the same with the same weight. But the amount of weight required to bend 1/3 is less because you took 6' of essentially fluff off the blank. The rod effectively acts the same with the same weight against it. But because we move the 1/3 bend point the test says the rod is weaker and the AA changes. But only because the constant is the 1/3. On a traditional full taper blank these results correlate to an actual change in properties. On the NEO it does not. It will effect your cast distance and give the fish a longer lever to pull against you. But the active properties of the rod, I hypothesize, will be the same.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: El Bolinger (50.233.0.---)
Date: November 17, 2022 09:16AM

Thanks for all the comments. I was planning on using it for 1/2-1oz or so weights plus plastics for jigs and big t-rigs (so probably a total weight of 3/4-1.5oz) to handle cover from open water to a decent amount of lilies and other vegetation (pretty much always braid and maybe sometimes a leader) and I'm thinking some swim jigs too - but honestly I might just let the rod tell me what it wants to do.

@Aaron - that is actually fascinating that they designed it that way and has me even more intrigued haha.

@Leslie and Tyler - I'm thinking of a swimbait build myself, but trying to find something a little shorter than 8 ft for those baits up to 3 oz, NFC defintely has a couple of options I'm lookin at.

@Michael - the pics on the NFC website for the 765 NEO definitely make it look like there are 3 distinct action points. I've been using a moderate fast action rod for my swim jigs and really like the feel of the fight and not ripping holes in the fish's mouth on hook sets, but sometimes it feels too soft when I'm yoyoing the retrieve. My moderate fast rod has a smooth contiguous taper, the NEO looks like it would have a hard fast stop when under a lighter load than it would take to start the next bend into the next action point.

@Aaron - having fished this rod have you experienced that distinct multi action/multi taper performance?

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Aaron Petersen (12.144.64.---)
Date: November 17, 2022 01:03PM

El Bolinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> @Aaron - having fished this rod have you
> experienced that distinct multi action/multi taper
> performance?

It is noticeable. The best example is throwing deep cranks. I took go pro of a cast from different angles and you can see the rod load into the second taper. The second taper is where the transition from zentron to carbon is. I use a DC reel and it slings. When working the deep crank the tip is bent and you can see and feel the crank working. When you rip rocks or grass it will mostly deflect the tip until it builds enough energy from the second taper to clear the obstacle. Then when you hook a fish it will go deep into the blank and you can use all the backbone you want because that zentron tip is bulletproof.

The same applies for ripping through grass with a lipless, fluke, chatterbait, or spinnerbait.

It really is a fun and unique rod.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 17, 2022 01:18PM

Regarding: "Does anybody have any TNF data on these NFC blanks?"

Send me a blank and I'll measure it for you. :-)

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Aaron Petersen (12.144.64.---)
Date: November 17, 2022 01:38PM

Send two. One may need to be built up and tested for a few years.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: El Bolinger (---)
Date: November 17, 2022 02:27PM

Cool thanks, how would you say it is for sensitivity? Can I use it for bottom contact? And you two are pretty blanking funny haha.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Aaron Petersen (12.144.64.---)
Date: November 17, 2022 03:34PM

I would recommend it most for moving baits.

I would like a stronger tip for setting hooks on the techniques I use for bottom contact.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: El Bolinger (---.bstnma.fios.verizon.net)
Date: November 18, 2022 12:28AM

Okay thanks, I think I'll give it a go for swim jig and chatterbait - I'll probably feel it out with a jig/worm just to see what it's like - if not for the tip being not to your liking for bottom contact how is it for sensitivity?

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Aaron Petersen (12.144.64.---)
Date: November 18, 2022 07:40AM

It is not as good at transmitting bottom as the full carbon lineup. Without real measurement best I can do is an anecdotal example. With the SJ736 you will feel every branch, rock, shell, blade of grass, fish poot...etc. With the zentron blend the NEO will transmit those moving bait bites and tugs but I don't have as much obstacle transmitted to my arm when bumping things with my spinnerbait. I know I am hitting something but I cannot tell what from feel alone.

For bottom contact in a similar lure range I am using the X-ray MB7108. I feel like I am cheating with this stick in my hand.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 18, 2022 07:47AM

I've looked at the deflection charts on the blank and just don't see all the stuff others do. Three different deflections at three different loads. The curves all look smooth and continuous. And I see no reason why CCS would not describe the blank well.

Just because a blank's last 6 inches are not tapered does not mean that that part of the blank is not "working." Try the blank at its original length, then cast it and load it using a guide 6 inches from the tip and see what the difference is. I expect it will be a dramatic difference. Do the same thing with any other blank and the result will be the same. A dramatic difference.

I expect it's a fine blank, but there is no magic there, IMHO. OK, feel free to unload on the skeptic.

Interesting that St. Croix has advertised for years that their blanks have no steps and are "continuous tapered," to paraphrase. Now we have a manufacturer advertising that their blank has "steps," or "action points."

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: El Bolinger (50.233.0.---)
Date: November 18, 2022 08:14AM

Michael Danek Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've looked at the deflection charts on the blank
> and just don't see all the stuff others do. Three
> different deflections at three different loads.
> The curves all look smooth and continuous. And I
> see no reason why CCS would not describe the blank
> well.
>
> Just because a blank's last 6 inches are not
> tapered does not mean that that part of the blank
> is not "working." Try the blank at its original
> length, then cast it and load it using a guide 6
> inches from the tip and see what the difference
> is. I expect it will be a dramatic difference.
> Do the same thing with any other blank and the
> result will be the same. A dramatic difference.
>
>
> I expect it's a fine blank, but there is no magic
> there, IMHO. OK, feel free to unload on the
> skeptic.
>
> Interesting that St. Croix has advertised for
> years that their blanks have no steps and are
> "continuous tapered," to paraphrase. Now we have
> a manufacturer advertising that their blank has
> "steps," or "action points."

Thanks for your thoughts on it. This isn't the first blank with steps/actions/tapers as G Loomis rods have advertised multi taper tech that is intended to perform exactly the same as this NFC NEO for quite some time now. I've heard many say they experience it and have seen demos that make it look so as well, although I've never fished one. Have you ever tested a loomis rod? That was what began my curiosity with all this is I've never fished loomis and don't think I could ever afford to, but if I can build something similar without an MSRP mark up I can at least justify the cost as actual parts and not crazy profits for each company that moves that rod along to the market.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: El Bolinger (50.233.0.---)
Date: November 18, 2022 08:21AM

Aaron Petersen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is not as good at transmitting bottom as the
> full carbon lineup. Without real measurement best
> I can do is an anecdotal example. With the SJ736
> you will feel every branch, rock, shell, blade of
> grass, fish poot...etc. With the zentron blend the
> NEO will transmit those moving bait bites and tugs
> but I don't have as much obstacle transmitted to
> my arm when bumping things with my spinnerbait. I
> know I am hitting something but I cannot tell what
> from feel alone.
>
> For bottom contact in a similar lure range I am
> using the X-ray MB7108. I feel like I am cheating
> with this stick in my hand.

I anecdotal is still what a lot of us go by, most people who fish have never heard of CCS or AA - so when we ask about a rod they can only share their experience, its in a multitude of counselors that we find wisdom so the more people that chime in the better off we all are. Now you have me considering the MB7109. Would be the longest rod I own and I've only used my Fury Swimbait rod like twice so anything above 7'3 is not what I'm used to. I imagine it would be as sensitive as the 7108 but I like the moderate fastness of it. I think mod-fast is underutilized by manufacturers - so hard to find one that isn't also super soft - especially considering the popularity of braid in the bass world.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.adr01.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 18, 2022 08:55AM

I do own two Loomis rods and fish them. I built them when Loomis blanks were available, and I don't remember any marketing text about steps or action points. It could be that Loomis had not come out with them at that time. They don't appear to me to have any steps. They are both fine rods. One is a light power crankbait rod whose CCS numbers are almost a perfect match for a Bushido. The other a medium power spinnerbait rod, fast action.

Yes, mod/fast seems to be going away with the semmingly strong push towards ExFast. But not all mod/fasts are even close to each other in action. I just reviewed some manufacturer data by a popular blank maker and it shows 3 mod/fast blanks with the AA's from 58 to 66, with a couple moderates at over 80 degrees. Moderates should be lower than mod/fast. There is even a fast with an AA of 30 degrees! It's a crap shoot. I have built two 7 foot Rainshadow ML power RX7's that I consider true mod/fast actions and I love one for its optimum action/power for snapping small swimbaits off the bottom. My son like his for tubes.

Also, the longer the rod the more "forgiving" the ExFast action rod will be for keeping fish pinned and not tearing hooks out.

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Re: NFC X-ray NEO Question
Posted by: El Bolinger (50.233.0.---)
Date: November 18, 2022 09:24AM

@Michael - here is a blurb from Loomis website says it goes back to 1982 "MULTI-TAPER DESIGN
Since 1982, we’ve pushed the boundaries of manufacturing technology, materials innovation, and product design. That’s why G. Loomis fly rods deliver superior performance, heightening angler experience and effectiveness on the water.

While there are countless examples of this philosophy in action, one technology in particular encapsulates our drive to build the most advanced rods in the world: Multi-Taper Design.

Multi-Taper Design is best described as a series of “micro-tapers” within the overall taper of the rod. This unique, proprietary process allows us to use more material on potential break points and less material everywhere else. To accomplish this, we manufactured a custom rolling table...and it’s the only one in existence today. The result is a catalog of precisely defined actions that strike a perfect balance between durability and performance."

I've seen videos on youtube from loomis reps "showing the different taper points"

And I feel you on the interesting swing towards ex-fast. I only recently got one myself and do like the crisp feeling they provide, and I imagine being able to get a hook set and a fish moving with a good yank, but I'm not sold it is the "answer" everyone is looking for. I got a 7ft xf and was torn between the 7'6 and couldn't handle either sssooooo. But now I'm digging modf with braid.

And that is absolutely bonkers about that wildly inconsistent data, but I feel I started noticing that before looking into all this build stuff - I'm like how are you calling this a fast when the bend is down to like the 5th guide. I htink part of the confusion is when rods are MB fast or Crranking fast and they have totally different characteristics.

While we're here - what makes an MB different than a "regular" rod (aside from marketing, because at this point it has to actually mean something to somebody because the audience would too soon become privy).

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