Hey guys,

I know it’s best to keep rod builds light weight and all, but I’m running into something that’s frustrating to me that I was hoping I could get some perspective on.

I’m building on a blank that is just shy of 2 ounces in weight. I’m using an nfc carbon grip, a Lemke lc25 reel seat, and I turned an all rubberized cork fighting butt. I used fiberglass drywall tape for my arbor (I know a lot of you here would not recommend that over flex coat arbors) and am using recoil guides.

Before I get into what’s bothering me I want to break something down:
My rod blank is 1.9 ounces
I used about .03 ounces of tape for an arbor
I’m speculating based off of another rubberized butt I turned similar in size that my fighting butt weighs .06 ounces
I am not sure the weight of that Lemke seat nor the nfc carbon fiber seat
I don’t think my guides would even register a weight on my scale.

My completed rod is weighing in at 4.5/4.6 ounces. This rod is an 8wt and my dilemma is that I feel this is awfully heavy for an 8wt. I know I could’ve gotten the rod right at or below 4 ounces if I had used all cork/Eva for my fighting butt but I love how all rubberized cork butts look.

Looking online at a lot of commercial 8wt rods I see that they range from 3.75 to 4 ounces routinely and it bugs me because I feel like I have done something “wrong” with my build. I love how the rod looks but I am bugging out over how heavy a scale is saying it is haha.

So I guess I’m looking for some conformation? Where do builders draw the line between what is aesthetically pleasing to them and what is hindering performance? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill here? I have very obsessive tendencies with stuff like this so sorry if this is overkill for some of you to read!

First of all, are you sure the comparative rods ae with fighting butts? Secondly, have you checked the scale?

Yes rods are with fighting butts and the scale is accurate.

I have no idea which blank you are using, but my 9ft. 6 in. ST962x-2 (HM) steelhead spinning rod weighs the same, blank weight is very similar. Centerpin rods use that reel seat, or the LC26.

My first question would be just how big is this rubberized fighting butt you made? My reason for asking is, I just weighed 2 different .25" thick, 1.25" diameter rubberized cork rings, one medium grain, the other small grain, and both weigh .1 oz. Are you certain that the .06 oz weight attributed to the weight of the fighting butt, is accurate?

Then I'd have to wonder if the rods you're comparing the weight of your rod to, have the same number of guides? The same size and model of guides? Are your wraps the same length as the commercial rods? Do they have less finish on the wraps than the wraps on your rod? One could drive themselves crazy in trying to account for the weight of every single thing that goes into the finished weight of a rod.

And finally .... I think we sometimes get caught up in what a scale may show, when how the rod performs is what really counts. While not being fly rods, I have added as much as 2.375 oz to the butt of a rod to get it to perform the way I want it to. No they aren't used in the same manner as a fly rod is used, but my point being, if the rod performs well, why does it matter what it weighs on a scale?

One additional item may be the amount of epoxy use to adhere the grip and reel seat. If they were large gaps to be filled it may have taken a large amount of epoxy.

Perhaps your 8 weight is more powerful/durable than their 8 weight?

Assuming an apples to apples blank comparison, if your additional weight is in the fighting but/reel seat/rear of the rod I don't see it being all that detrimental.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Al,
I never concern myself with the weight of the finished rod.
What I do concern myself with is its swing weight. So what if the fighting butt is heavy - it's low down on the rod and will be percieved as no weight at all.
I am very careful about adding weight to the tip section.
For instance, my CTS Affinity-X #10 has a lower swing weight than an 8wt Sage Xi2. But weighs more overall.
Herb

Thank you guys for the responses. Herb you bring up a good point regarding swing weight.

I’m new to this but recently I glued up the grip section of AT g2 system components for a casting rod I’m building. There are numerous opportunities and locations to apply epoxy. As a testament to my being new to rodbuilding I took full advantage and very carefully packed virtually every available cavity with epoxy with never a thought to how much the epoxy would add in weight.

Once dry I picked it up and loved the feel and the heft of the assembly. That’s when it registered that it shouldn’t feel this heavy. I weighed all the components of the rod and it came out to nearly 7 ounces! I mocked up the guide train and hefted the assembled rod and while I haven't cast it yet it “feels” really good. If feels substantial but swings easily and I like it very much. It balances, with the reel in place, at a point just in front of the reel.

Still the idea of all that weight was bothersome so I ordered up a second set of the exact same components. I am building twin rods and will gift one to each of my sons. I think it will be very interesting to compare what look like identical rods of substantially different weights.

All the bits and pieces add up, but the epoxy represents considerable weight if one is not being careful to minimize weight at every turn.

In truth my money is on the heavy rod. It just “feels” good

Bob, I wouldn't worry about how much weight you are adding in epoxy at a reel seat. You want the assembly to be structurally sound. Imagine if you skimped on epoxy because you were worried about weight, and it caused the seat to fail in some manner?

If you want to worry about epoxy weight, worry about it where it can make a difference in rod performance. Like wrap epoxy over your guide wraps. Reel seat weight really doesn't affect the performance of a rod all that much, if at all.

Al,
With respect to your total rod weight.

I am guessing that 2/3rds of that weight is in the rubberized cork that you used for your grip.

Cut the grip and the fiberglass tape arbor and I expect that most of your extra weight will be gone.

It is fine if you want to use rubberized cork for a grip. But, if you do, make it a shell with the inner part of the grip to be poly arbors and your weight will come back to what is expected of a build like yours.

I will use perhaps 2 or 3 cork rings in a grip for decoration. But, if you are interested in a lighter rod, lose the rubberized cork for a full grip.

Also, you really should not be using a huge amount of epoxy on a rod. Rather, you want to use a light filler during assembly - rather than pure epoxy which is heavy by volume.

But, custom rod building is custom. Build a rod in a way that gives you 100% satisfaction. If you like to do it, and it catches fish for you - by all means don't change anything.

Al,
Admittedly, I do not build that many fly rods and I certainly don’t know the difference between your blank OD and seat ID. Nonetheless, whenever one of my builds requires a substantial (relative term) amount of epoxy, I add microspheres / micro balloons to the epoxy; it can reduce the weight of the epoxy by HALF or more! Microspheres are simply as implied; a powder of extremely thin-shelled micro glass balloons with virtually no air inside. They can be purchased at virtually any composite supply store such as Aircraft Spruce & Specialty.
That being said and from your post, just remember that rubberized cork is extremely heavy comparatively to other options = your choice; Form Follows Function or the inverse.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

There seems to be some confusion here! He stated that he used a NFC carbon grip, not rubberized cork, it was used only for the fighting butt.

Epoxy and rubberized “cork” are both heavy compared to the best blank and handle/butt materials. Two part epoxy seems to be much more dense than water with both resin and hardener being viscous. One thing that has improved during my years of building is control of epoxy weight. Matching components to minimize shim widths and keeping epoxy to just the shim edges and surfaces really pays. All the extra goop beyond this doesn’t result in much more strength. Getting light without compromising strength is a process. Enjoy each build without worrying, while making the next one better. The extra weight isn’t desirable, but it’s not in a terrible place.

A natural cork grip that is the same length of a carbon fiber grip is lighter. Instead of EVA on the butt piece use a combo of natural and burl cork with the burl being at the end. That is the lightest I have found to do it and the burl offers more protection at the end like the EVA would. Like Herb said, it really is the swing weight. The lighter the tip section the better, sometimes more weight toward the butt will be less fatiguing.