The metric conversion act has been around since 1975, all it did was to declare the metric system "the preferred system of weights and measures for United States trade and commerce", but permitted the use of United States customary units in all activities. So it is essential an option rather than a mandate. During my working career as a research scientist the metric system was the only system we used, so I’m quite conversant in both systems and switch back and forth regularly. The metric system makes so much more sense and is much easier to use and understand than our old imperial system. I have found that the metric system does make laying out a guide train so much easier than using working with inches and fraction of inches. Also many of our components we buy have metric dimensions, like ring sizes, OD and ID sizes, etc. So this topic does have some relevance to rod building. But that’s just me. People here are free to use any measuring system they like. I know finding a metric tape measure in the US is hard to do, but they are available. If you find one buy it and try it, if you don’t like it sell it, give it away or toss it out.
Norm

Norm wrote

"People here are free to use any measuring system they like. I know finding a metric tape measure in the US is hard to do, but they are available. If you find one buy it and try it, if you don’t like it sell it, give it away or toss it out."

That's fair

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2022 08:45PM by John DeMartini.

I used to be a motorcycle mechanic and had to have 3 sets of tools; SAE for domestic, metric for European and Asian and British Standard for Triumphs, BSAs and Nortons. I also have a couple of tape measures with standard on top and metric on the bottom so they're not hard to find. Digital calipers are also in both. IMO metric is much easier to use and I'm old.

David Baylor,
You don't know what defines a metric ton, and therefore a kilogram, gram, etc? Hint it's something found in nature, all over the place, found in vaporous, liquid, and frozen states worldwide.
The kilometer is tied to the circumference of the earth, so obviously the meter is also, and a cubic meter of something weighs a certain amount, all over the world. See the correlation now?

I’m from Canada. We are metric. I measure in feet / inches. It’s just what I’ve become accustomed to and relates to how I process information. 3 1/2 feet makes sense in my brain more then the metric equivalent. But I do use both in truth.

But a tape measure with both standard and metric is an exercise in frustration to me because the edge I’m trying to measure often falls on the metric side of the tape and I simply won’t use it hahaha. I mean the information is right there haha, but I still try to sight across to the standard side.

The meter is defined based on the speed of light, the distance light travels in 1/299,792,458 s. The inch is defined based on the speed of light such that 1 in = 2.54 cm.

The second is defined based on the frequency of the hyperfine splitting in the Cesium 133 atom, and is the amount of time it takes an electron to flip its spin 9,192,631,770 times.

The kilogram used to be defined based on a hunk of platinum-iridium alloy housed in Sevres, France. Over time it has lost mass, and therefore over the course of ~130 the kilogram was a changing unit. It is now based on fixing Planck's constant, a physical constant of our universe that allows us to calculate the energy of a single photon of light based on the frequency of the light wave.

These are the scientific standards that will stand from now on, given that all of the fundamental quantities are fixed based upon the fundamental physics of the universe.

The system of units that one chooses to measure in matters little. They differ by some simple unit conversions. 1" will always be 2.54 cm. 1 cubic centimeter of water has a mass of 1 gram, one fluid ounce of water has a weight of 1 ounce, so the imperial units have measurements based on water as well. Working in base 10 makes a lot of sense given that modern calculators work in base 10, but working in units of base 2 or base 12 that make up many imperial units has merit too. When doing mental math, many of the imperial units can be divided up equally resulting in nice round numbers. Take that 5280 feet in a mile, it is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8 as well as a whole host of multiples of those numbers. Once you get used to working with fractions, life is not that terribly painful.

Those that come from precision machining background where the caliper and micrometer give measurements in base 10 feel more comfortable in a base 10 system. Those that come form the construction trades may find the fractions and benefits of the imperial system more comfortable. At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter as long as we report numbers with proper units in our communications, anyone can work in any system of units they choose.

By day I teach and work in the metric system. At home, most projects I tackle are going to be working on things constructed based on imperial units. I use whichever system is appropriate for the job at hand. When it comes to rod building, the only measurements I really need to know are where to place the choke guide on a spinning rod, handle length and diameter, and blank diameter at certain places for fitting reel seats and decorative components. Handle measurements are going to likely be in inches because I know what lengths I like based on the length of the blank and OD of the seat components I like in inches. Blank diameters, I'll put my caliper in mm mode. Choke guide location will be in whichever units I measure/calculate it in.

As a scientist, I should promote the conversion to the metric system, but it really doesn't matter one way or the other. The metric system exists because early chemists liked to compare other chemicals with the properties of water. Water was used as the measuring stick to compare all sorts of different substances. Measurements in the imperial system are often based on things that we experience in day-to-day life. The mile was a originally 1000 Roman feet where each time the same foot hits the ground you have travelled 5 Roman feet, with some revision the foot was shortened and we get the 5280 feet that divides so easily.

All that said, I grew up in the US and mentally relate to things like inches, miles, ounces, and pounds. Even though I've learned and used the metric system most of my life, when I encounter a new number or need to think on a scale that is unfamiliar, you can bet I'll be converting to imperial units to satisfy my brain. I would also have a hard time giving up my atmospheric and cooking temperatures in Fahrenheit degrees.

Now, I'll leave you with a couple questions and a little bit of a snarky comment. It seems worth bickering over whether to use a length measurement that is base 10 or fractional, but why are we not complaining that the day, hour, minute, and second are a base 12 set of measurements? Why aren't we complaining about using degrees when the mathematicians say we should use radians? As long as the dimensionality is correct, who cares what the units are. Maybe I'll start reporting numbers in attoparsecs for length, slugs for mass, and shakes for time. It sure would be cool sounding to say that my 100 g rod has a mass of 0.0069 slugs, that my surf rod casts about 3500 attoparsecs, or that my rod blank has a frequency of about 1.5 billion inverse shakes.

Bob Foster Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’m from Canada. We are metric. I measure in
> feet / inches. It’s just what I’ve become
> accustomed to and relates to how I process
> information. 3 1/2 feet makes sense in my brain
> more then the metric equivalent.
>
>That says it all. It is not a matter of what system is easier but a matter of information processing.

I worked in a heavy machine industry that had been taken over by a European company and both contingents out of NECESSITY had to become conversant in SAE and metric. Now that I am retired I revert back to the system I grew up with.


Have fun

Spencer, so the metric ton being based on the weight of a cubic meter of water, means it's derived from nature? Not in my book. It's based on a natural substance's weight per a specific amount, An amount which was specified by a human, not how much water a natural object holds.

If you want to say something is derived from nature, wouldn't the foot be more appropriate? It was first based on the length of someones foot. Of course that wasn't a good base to have because people have different sized feet. What I didn't know, is what my research shows, and that is that when the length of a foot was standardized, the length was based on the length of King Henry I's, boot length. Didn't even know it was King Henry I. I just knew it was the length of some kings foot. So even the foot is no longer based on a naturally occurring object.

As far as the tape measure thing goes. I can't see how the metric system would make reading a tape measure any more easy. You still have to place marks based on marks on a tape measure. What makes the metric system easier is that it is easier to convert to a higher or lower value. Being based on units of 10 means you just have to move of add a decimal point. A decimal point means you still have fractions of a unit of measure, but they're consistent in the metric system. They aren't consistent in the US system.

The US system is easier for me because I am familiar with it. Our blue prints at work use whole inch numbers with a decimal point to represent any fractions of an inch, so I know by heart or can pretty easily convert those numbers to numbers on a tape measure.

Just like with a lot of things in rod building, it comes down to personal choice.

I'm Earl Pitts ............ American LOL

All units of measurements have to be based on a standard. The weight of 1 cubic centimeter (1 milliliter) of water at 4 degrees Centigrade (C) will weighs one gram. One liter of water will weigh one kilogram. Length, volume, and weight are all related in the metric system. In the Imperial system length, volume, and weight are not related to each other at all. For temperature, 0 degrees Centigrade is the freeing point of water, 100 degrees Centigrade is the boiling temperature of water. The metric system being a decimal system just makes sense to me. However, I do use both systems.
In my opinion, when measuring the incremental increases in distances between guides, using centimeter units just seem to be a natural for doing this. However, use any method you are comfortable with, and works for you. As stated before, It a personal choice.
Norm

Norman, no argument from me. The metric system is easier to use, and easier to learn. I will be 65 next month. I am past learning new stuff like that. And to be honest, I'm not really interested in learning it. I know 1 mm is .039" and if I need to convert mm's to inches it's a simple process. Easier than converting ERN to grams. Need a chart to do that. <wink> <wink> lol

And all units of measure are based on a standard. My definition, and one of the definitions in the dictionary for derive means origin. So when I see the term derived from nature, I am thinking they weighed something in nature to come up with the value. Whether that is the correct way to define "derived from" or not, that's how I see it.

Same as with the sensitivity discussion going on in the Point Blank thread currently. My definition of rod sensitivity is what I can feel when it's in my hand. For others, it's evidently only related to measurable attributes of the rod itself.

David - You are correct, for ERN you need a chart or the ERN calculator. The frequency measurements are also used for comparison purposes, just like IP/ERN and AA. Whether or not frequency is a measure of sensitivity, hard to say, but it does give you something for comparison purposes, when you can’t hold the blank you want in your hands. I personally think almost all blanks are sufficiently sensitive. When I was a kid (I’ll be 77 shortly, so a long time ago) the only game in town were fiberglass rods, and we used monofilament. I caught a lot of fish with these old outfits, and could actually feel the fish bite. Even today using a fiberglass crappie jig pole I can feel that unique ‘tick’ when the crappie takes a jig. Of course tackle has gotten much better and lighter over the years. Modern tackle just feels better. Oh by the way, I know you measure IP in grams, finish epoxy in milliliters (CC), and buy reel seats in millimeters. so you do use the metric system for some things. It’s not a foreign thing for you!
Norm

Our "pounds and inches" measuring system is the cause of millions of re-purchases every day to get the correct - size product. All this buying keeps money moving and is a boon to our economy. Converting back and forth between measurement systems sharpens the mathematical abilities of U.S. citizens. It's a win-win situation.

Norman, you're right. The metric system is not foreign to me. I'm just far more comfortable with the US system. Your back ground is in science, and you're an American. Both are good reasons why you're familiar with both systems.

My back ground is in the trades, and I'm an American. Both are good reasons why I am more familiar with the US system than the metric system. Other than watching track and field events, and Formula 1 racing, rod building is the only other time I am forced to use the metric system. And I say forced only because of how they list distances or display speed.

That’s fair enough. The nice thing about being an American is we are not forced to choose. We get to do it our way.
Norm

Amen to that Norman

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The nice thing about being
> an American is we are not forced to choose. We get
> to do it our way.
> Norm


Thank you.

That is point the folks who prefer to use the SAE system have been trying to make throughout this posting.

Have Fun

John



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2022 10:00PM by John DeMartini.

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That’s fair enough. The nice thing about being
> an American is we are not forced to choose. We get
> to do it our way.
> Norm

The only countries that have not officially adopted the metric system are: The United States, Myanmar and Liberia.


**UPDATE
Liberia and Myanmar have adopted the International System of Units (SI) as the country's official system of measurement.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2022 09:01AM by Chris Catignani.

And now there are two.

Unites States and Liberia back to back with short swords.against the world.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2022 04:25PM by John DeMartini.

I reserve comment.

Have fun



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/19/2022 10:20AM by John DeMartini.