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Pages: 12Next
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Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Stan Daubinawski (---.sub-174-250-8.myvzw.com)
Date: April 14, 2022 11:55AM

Greetings during the recent NFC Rod Blank Sale I purchased a NFC FW 601-1(IM) Blank and a NFC 1K-IPS3.75-2.0 Soft Touch Grip to go with it.

I am using this for Trout Fishing in Small Streams in WI and perch vertical fishing. For trout fishing it will be a light flouro line, and for perch it will
be light braid with flouro Leader .

So I did find the Anglers Resource for KR Guide Spacing.
I would do the 16H 8H 5.5m Then would it be the 4F Runners?

What would be some good Guides to use for this type of build? Just use the Fuji SS with Alconite? The Fuji titanium are a little out of my price range.
Or would there be another type that would work/be better.

(I have built some a couple of Ice Fishing Rods before, but this will be the first Full size Rod)

Thanks for any help.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: April 14, 2022 12:11PM

You don't need that many different sizes. If you are going to use the 4F runners, then the choke guide should be a 4F as well. Drop the 5.5 and just go on to the 4F.

...........

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: April 14, 2022 01:06PM

I really like the Fuji KR concept. You can use the Fuji KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M guides for the reduction train and KB/KT4 as the running guides. If you want a lighter option, you can use either PacBay Minima match (M) guides or the SeaGuide HLG guides for the reduction train (same sizes 16, 8, and 5). For the runners use either the PacBay F guides or the the SeaGuide MKG guides in a size 4. Both the PacBay and SeaGuide reduction guides are very similar in height to the Fuji KR guides, so you can use the Fuji KR GPS for getting a tentative guide placement layout. I would use at least two more running guides than the KR GPS suggests. If you need more specific help please email, and I will be happy to help.
Norm
PS - The NFC IPS soft touch CF grips are really nice. I like them a lot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/14/2022 01:28PM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Jim Reinhardt (205.185.140.---)
Date: April 14, 2022 02:40PM

I have that blank as use it as my go to trout rod, you are going to love it. I use pac bay minimas and agree with Tom 16H, 8H then runners. If i had it to build over again I think I would use 12H, 6H and then runners, I use 4 lbs. nanofil and it has no memory to speak of so I think 12 is plenty big. My buddy uses the same rod and he snagged the 16H when he tripped and it pulled out, continued fishing with just the 8H and the runners and the rod casted just fine.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: April 14, 2022 03:25PM

Stan,
There is no substitute for Norman’s experience with the KR Concept and Fuji’s research and development to produce it. I find it difficult to argue with such a respected industry leader as Fuji and the same goes for a respected veteran such as Norman. All of my ULs are KRC utilizing either Fuji KL-H, Minima M or Sea Guide HLG reduction guides in sizes 16, 8, 5.5 (or 5) and they all work beautifully. The Minimas may be lighter but not as robust as the Fujis. 95% of those ULs are Fuji guides and I have found the CC / BC KLAG-Hs to be a great value = cannot justify the price of Ti frames and Torsite rings, especially for freshwater.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: April 14, 2022 04:05PM

I agree with Jim's recommendations. By the way I have experienced no advantage using fluoro over mono on trout, especially in this line class rod.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Peter Yawn (---.mpls.qwest.net)
Date: April 14, 2022 04:48PM

For a recent ultralight spinning rod I started with a size 12 Pac Bay titanium match guide and went 12, 6, to size 4 runners. I use 4 lb braid on this rod, and it works great. If using mono or fluoro I would probably stick with the size 16. The pac bay guides are a lot less expensive than fuji titanium, and while I don't believe that are as strong as fuji, it matters less with 4 lb line. Also, in my experience, trout are not the least bit line shy when using typical spinning tackle lures. I've fished straight braid for trout for at least 10 years without once thinking it kept me from getting bit.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: April 14, 2022 05:30PM

If it were my rod, I would use pac bay minimas. Size 18, 8 and 5.5 to the tip. With a 5.5 tip.

Having the running guides a touch larger takes knots and leader issues completely out of the picture.

The difference in casting distance, casting effort or fish catching ability between using 5.5 runners compared to 3.5 runners is negligible. Doubt that you would experience any difference.

However, the larger runners eliminate knot issues and also eliminate threading line through the very small guides that is a problem for many folks.

Best wishes.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: April 14, 2022 05:48PM

Stan,

Just for kicks, go out and try your initial set-up with the 5.5 in the mix. Then try it without the 5.5 and instead with a 4F in its place. You're going to find that you can't tell any difference. But by all means, try it for yourself.

.................

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: April 14, 2022 07:28PM

The Fuji recommended runners would be KB-KTs.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Joel Wick (---.donnerdeck.com)
Date: April 14, 2022 09:00PM

I'm with Tom K.

However, the first question to answer when building a spinning rod is to determine what reel is going to be used on the rod.

Try it without the 5.5M. I might build it with a 7H, maybe even a 6H, instead of the 8H, especially if I was going to use a Daiwa 1000 sized reel.

Daiwa reels seem to have shorter stems and a little more upsweep than other brands, allowing you to move the choke guide closer to the reel.

Place the choke guide where a direct line down the spool shaft intersects the rod blank, and work from there.

The reason is, that for the absolute smoothest flow of line off a spinning reel, it needs to flow to a point directly in front of the spool shaft.

Smaller reels with shorter stems and upsweep allow you to achieve this, still keeping the choke guide close to the reel and weight off the working end of the rod, making the rod aspect of the rod/reel system work best.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: April 15, 2022 01:40AM

It is puzzling to me that Fuji would spend as much time, effort, resources, and money to develop specific reduction guide trains which automatically produce the perfect size and spacing; gee, go figure!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: April 15, 2022 07:20AM

I think it important to consider the planned use of the rod, light lines, tight streams which means short casts. Optimum guide layout matters less on a rod like this than it does for a rod being designed for big reels, heavier lines and long casts. For this rod just about anything will work.

I would opt for the lightest reasonable setup and retain the fastest response time rather than worry about the other lesser (in this case) priorities.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Andrew Metzger (---.ip.win.net)
Date: April 15, 2022 09:00AM

I've gone to using pac bay minima's to get down to size 4 light wire fly guides for my panfish/trout/dropshot rods. Maybe something to think about.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (172.58.99.---)
Date: April 15, 2022 12:16PM

Seaguide are a bit less than Fuji and have ceramic rings. Their H guides are about the same height also. I also agree with Tom on dropping the 5.5 on a rod that short.

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: April 15, 2022 12:57PM

Rod length doesn't play into the equation, other than the number of running guides needed. The reel has no idea how long the rod is. So if you're using the same reel, then the butt guide and reduction guides would be identical on a 6 foot rod and a 9 foot rod. Only difference would be the number of running guides used to support the additional length on the longer rod.

..............

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Stan Daubinawski (---.sub-174-250-8.myvzw.com)
Date: April 15, 2022 01:35PM

Wow. Thanks for all the feedback and information on the guides.

Sounds like the Pack Bay Minima's are the way to go as far as guides.
Would tip top also be Minima one suggested in Catalog then?

I am waiting for my Blanks, so I assume it is best to wait to measure the tip before purchasing the Tip Top rather than going by the manufacturer spec.?
(I wrapped my tip top on my Ice Rod)

The actual size of the Guides have a little more debate.

Can use the 16h 8H then go straight to a size 4 without the 5.5m. To Test this how would this be done temporarily. Just use tape to try temporarily?

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: April 15, 2022 03:10PM

I’m going down to my shop right now. I have a 7’ ultralight set up with a Minima 16 M, 8M, and 5M reduction train with size 4F runners.i love the way it performs. It casts smooth, quiet and long. I going to cut the 5M off and replace it with a 4F and see how it casts. I’ll let you what I get. I’ll give you an honest assessment.
Norm

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: April 15, 2022 03:38PM

Stan,

I normally aways use a ceramic tiptop and generally a titanium model. Low weight and less chance of ever having to replace a tiptop due to wear or grooving. The tiptop, by virtue of both the line coming across it at a greater angle than it ever will across the guides, and being the "wiper" that sweeps dirt, minute sand particles, etc., from the line, is the one place one any rod where a ceramic ring is very much worthwhile.

..........

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Re: Ultralight Rod Guides
Posted by: chris c nash (---.atmc.net)
Date: April 15, 2022 03:55PM

Line choice is the most important aspect above everything else when talking about spinning reel builds . Reel specs etc... is a distant second. If using light braid it doesn't matter if you have a spinner with a 76MM spool diameter which I have or a reel with a 52 MM spool diameter which I also have . They will both work incredibly well UNTIL you switch to a stronger and larger diameter line. Anything up to approx 20 pound braid will work fantastic even with a ring size as small as 16MM in many cases and really really well with ring sizes of 20MM and 25MM if spaced correctly . It is for this reason that I always test layout's with a line size that is heavier than I typically use because a heavier line will reveal a less than optimal layout quickly. Thinner lighter and more supple braids will make it near impossible to tell how good your layout really is because they will work great even with poorly laid out guide trains.

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