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Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Mo Yang (---)
Date: December 21, 2021 10:02PM

As an admitted weight weenie, I am looking for some arbors that are (as the title states): rigid, light, and thin.

The outer diameter needs to be at least .55 inch or 14mm. The inner diameter, the smaller the better. Even a solid disc would be better as I can drill it myself. Some of the blanks I have is 4mm or so and no arbor I have found has a hold that small.

I suppose that I can get a sheet of 1/4" thick of some stiff and light material and then cut the circular discs out except I am not sure HOW I would cut something like that.

I so I guess there are two questions:

1. What material will have best rigidity to weight ratio, within reason. (Foam core used for carbon fiber grips is too soft.)

2. And how would I cut discs around .55 inch diameter? (Can't be smaller but can be larger as I can sand it down on a mini lathe.)

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any help.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/21/2021 10:07PM by Mo Yang.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: December 21, 2021 11:41PM

Mo,
Flat foam sheets used for structural foam core composite construction will suit your requirements quite well. They are available in different densities and thickness and are designed to be used in conjunction with epoxies. Some are polyurethane, others PVC, along with other variants. Consider using “Divinycell” (PVC) which comes in densities of 3 lb / cu ft or 6 lb / cu ft and in thicknesses of .125 - 3in. The easiest supplier is Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. with locations on both coasts and they carry quality, aircraft approved products. Although Tom K. may disagree, possibly you according to your post, the 3lb Divinycell will be quite adequate for your bushing / arbor requirements. Step up to 6lb if you doubt me.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: December 21, 2021 11:46PM

Mo,
By the way, the OD and ID can be cut rather easily using the sharpened end of telescoping brass tubing.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Date: December 22, 2021 07:37AM

Mo, if your rods get any lighter. your going to have to attach an anchor to them..lol



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2021 07:41AM by ben belote.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 22, 2021 07:57AM

Take a scrap blank with the thickness you need it to be, cut it lenghtwise in quarters, then cut each quarter the length of the arbor you think oyu need.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 22, 2021 09:26AM

The foam core material used for grips is rather hard. The 8lb variety is quite rigid yet extremely lightweight and offers the best ratio of stiffness to weight. There is no need to cut it in narrow sections which only serves to reduce bonding area. A couple of 1 inch arbors is fine.

.........

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Chris Catignani (---)
Date: December 22, 2021 09:49AM

Billy Vivona Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Take a scrap blank with the thickness you need it
> to be, cut it lenghtwise in quarters, then cut
> each quarter the length of the arbor you think oyu
> need.

I been doing like this for a long time. It makes the ultimate arbor IMO.
I will first cut a piece the length I need.
Put that piece in a vice and turn until it breaks...it always breaks in quarters.
This is when you need a thin arbor.

For thicker applications (like a tube for Tennessee handle) I will use the polyurethane arbors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/22/2021 12:25PM by Chris Catignani.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: December 22, 2021 10:40AM

Mo,
How much different in weight is there if one simply uses masking tape for your arbor?

Do you have to make your job difficult.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Billy Vivona (---.nycmny.fios.verizon.net)
Date: December 22, 2021 11:08AM

Masking tape is a horrible choice for this, nobody looking to save weight would even consider using it, unless they are using drywall tape. In that case teh masking tape would be an upgrade in teh weight savings department,

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 22, 2021 11:20AM

From the measurements listed in the original post, it would seem that a good deal of space needs to be taken up. Exactly how much space you need to fill will play a large role in the best material for doing this. I'd still opt for a rigid lightweight foam arbor in almost any case.

............

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: December 22, 2021 02:02PM

My suggestion is to use Fiberglass Mesh Drywall tape to fill the void on the foam arbors and slip them over that. You can reduce weight by cutting the Drywall Tape in 1/4" strips using them at the ends of the foam arbors and one in the middle. You need a flexible paste type epoxy to glue it all up with. I make very light rods and this is the method I use. I never use masking tape arbors.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: December 22, 2021 04:35PM

Drywall tape, if it's what I think it is, a mesh of fiberglass or similar fiber that gets filled with epoxy, is not the lightest solution. If "ultimate light" is the objective, then foam is the answer. What drywall tape ends up being is simply reinforced epoxy.

I've used masking tape for thin arbors and never have had any problems. I always totally encapsulate them with epoxy to prevent deterioration if water were to get in. I will use foam except for the very thin ones where the foam gets hard to handle and tends to break up.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: December 22, 2021 07:37PM

I have cut solid aluminum disks for a couple of the air handling units I have built at work. I would think the same process I used could be used in your case.

I took a hole saw with an ID slightly larger than I wanted the OD of the disk to be, and using that bit, I drilled a hole through a piece of 1x6. This hole will be your guide hole. BTW, just in case you didn't know ..... if you don't want the hole saw to wobble as it is cutting through whatever stock you're drilling, you want to use a solid rod in the center of he hole saw bit.. Using a drill bit as the center shaft will cut the stock and make the center hole get bigger at the same time the hole saw bit is cutting stock, Which will result in the entire assembly, wobbling. I hope I explained that so it makes sense. And sorry for mentioning it if it's something you already knew.

Most hole saw bits I have ever used or seen, have a 1/4" drill or pin in their center. So you want to drill a quarter inch hole, using a drill bit in your stock first, and then use the hole saw with a solid 1/4" rod in its' center.

Anyhow ..... after drilling the hole in the 1x6 you place and clamp the 1x6 on top of the stock you want the disks made out of. Take the center shaft out of the hole saw bit, and simply use the hole in the 1x6 as the guide to keep the hole saw bit from wobbling off center. It works quite well. If you have concerns about the hole saw bit making the hole in the 1x6 a bit bigger, just use a piece of 2x4 for the stock you drill your guide hole in. The thicker material will add stability for the hole saw bit.

If you want to mark the center of your disk, just put the drill bit in the center of the hole saw bit, put it inside your guide hole and give it a hard enough tap so it acts like a center punch on you disk material. Then just take the drill bit back out and drill away. After you cut the disks just use an appropriate size drill bit to drill out the center.

If you go slow and let the hole saw bit do its' thing, you'll come out with nice round disks. Oh, and the smallest hole saw bit that I have ever seen, of the type of bit I am speaking of, is 5/8" which results in a disk slightly under 1/2" OD. A 3/4" hole saw results in a disk slightly over 1/2" For the size disk you're looking for, I would guess a 3/4" or 7/8" hole saw bit would probably give you the OD disk you'd be looking for.

As a disclaimer of sorts, this may not give you the precision piece you're looking for, but it worked quite well for me, and the type of disks I needed to make.

Of course it would probably be easier going with the other suggestions you've already gotten lol

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: December 22, 2021 07:38PM

Mo,
Won't one of these work?

[flexcoat.com]

If you need the od to be smaller, just slip a bolt up the inside of the arbor and put on a nut to make it tight.

Then, chuck the arbor into a drill and hold the arbor against a spinning belt sander or even a piece of sandpaper that is stuck to a bench.
Then, bore the inside to match the od of the rod blank and you will be set.

Simple, readily available and inexpensive.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: December 22, 2021 07:49PM

Good luck cutting drywall tape into useable 1/4" strips! You're a better man than I. Lol

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: December 22, 2021 11:50PM

Billy,
May I ask why masking tape is a horrible choice for this project.

Over the years, I have used masking tape for many arbors. I have yet to ever see one fail. When the reel seat has epoxy applied to it, it completely surrounds the masking tape and I have never had an issue.

Normally, when I use a masking tape arbor it is only to fill a very thin void. But, for these purposes it works just fine.

I personally tried using drywall tape once but I never tried it again. In this case I found that a dry wall tape and epoxy arbor was horrible for any rod. But, to each his own.

What is the problem with masking tape. I make an arbor of masking tape by placing rows of narrow masking tape on the blank and then insure that each edge of each row has a thin layer of epoxy applied which effectively seal each narrow row of masking tape in epoxy and thus creates a weather and water tight cocoon for the tape. Easy, quick and no failures.

But, to each his own.

Best wishes.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: December 22, 2021 11:51PM

Mo,
To better understand your issue, can you take and post pictures of your project?

Take care

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Terry Kirk (---)
Date: December 23, 2021 02:59AM

I make most of my arbors from wood. I bought a machinist mini lathe from Harbor Freight and can do a lot of different things with it for rodbuilding and wood working or even metal work. Building mostly ultra lite rods the masking tape trick adds too much weight. Using more rigid material allows you too use less area to get the job done and save on weight. I build a lot of rods with hollow graphite tubes using an arbor at the front and rear. Creates a nice looking finish for the Tennessee style handles I prefer.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Mo Yang (---)
Date: December 23, 2021 04:19AM

Just revisiting this thread for the first time. Thanks to all who replied. Appreciated.

Terry Kirk, what you do with arbors at front and rear is similar to my idea.

Reasons for not thinking of foam are:
1. Foam inside diameter are all too big for what I need. I want no larger than 5mm ID.
2. I suspect that foam would not be as sensitive in transmitting vibration as a stiff piece of thin carbon fiber disc or something along those lines.

As to those who wonder how light, well, as light as possible. For me, part of the pleasure is figuring how I can shave even a percentile of a gram - just because I can. It's an exercise I enjoy and there is a law of diminishing return. But the key is to do all these without sacrificing ergonomics or I'll just tape a reel to a blank and be done - as some have impishly suggested through the years whenever I bright weight up. :)

Thanks again to all who replied.

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Re: Need most rigid, lightest, thin arbors....
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: December 23, 2021 09:31AM

Mo,

Foam is STIFF. Once it cures it's no longer foam - it's rigid polyurethane. It's going to offer you the highest stiffness to weight ratio of anything mentioned in this thread.

............

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