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Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Senad Katana (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: November 06, 2021 10:31PM

Good evening
I am trying to build rod but having issues and would appreciate any help in guide to finish the rod.
Due to severe carpal tunnel,I looked for lighter blank and way to lighten weight on equipment so I could enjoy fishing instead of having my hands numbed after 5 minutes of casting.
I bought Rainshadow REVSU710M -7'.10" in length-8-17lb-Mod/Fast action blank.
I would like to pair that with Daiwa Tatula 4000,manly for light pier fishing and 20 or 14 mono(if not to heavy)
Reel is placed at 14" frok the butt and at mid position is 17.1/4",and fully extended 17.5"
I have fuji alconite guides 25H-12H-8M-7L- 6KB-6KT.(I also have 20H-10H-5.5L-5KB,5KT bit dont have tip top size 5 )
When I went to Anglers Resource and used calculator I got measurements and info on guide sizing:

25H-12H-7L and 6 KT runners.
Striper -22";
2nd Reduction -9.91";
3rd Reduction-7.65";
Choke guide -5.43".
Total reduction trail -23.99"
Choke point 45"
After choke guide I have 32.3/4" left to the tip and the way I understand I need place 5 more KT runners to the tip.
However I calculate distance between remaining guides is bigger then from 3rd reduction to choke guide.If I add 7th guide it would give me total of 10 guides + tip top.

I m wondering if I suppose to measure 22" from the spool at mid position,or fully extended.

Thank you Senad



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2021 12:08AM by Senad Katana.

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: John Durbin (---.inf6.spectrum.com)
Date: November 07, 2021 05:42AM

Senad,
I have had the same problem as you with my hand going numb after casting, not as soon as you but it has been a problem every time I am casting alot. I Just started fishing a couple of new rods I made with the American Tackle Aero reel seats. I started using it a couple of weeks ago and my hand has not gone numb once, I didn't even think about it until a few days later that the numbness was gone. It has only been a couple of weeks so far and I hope it will continue. Maybe this is something you could try on your next build. I will leave the guide questions to the others on here that are much more knowledgeable than I am.

John

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 07, 2021 05:47AM

First let me say I have never found a problem with the Fuji reduction guide software; it always has worked fine.

I would use ten guides on that rod and would favor the larger running guides based on your line plans. But I would suggest you take a look at the premium 8-12 strand braids which can give you a number of advantages, long casts with 20 pound test or so, lots of line on the reel if you need it. I use a 20 pound test braid on a Stradic 4000 for a bonefish backup rod (and for shots at cudas) and it works great with 20KLH-10KLH-5.5M reduction train.

I am not familiar with extendable rods, but I would think you would design the rod for the most likely position to be used when fishing it.

Read the two-line tutorial on the Anglers Resource site to place the running guides. Don't be scared off by the two lines; it's actually easier than one-line since the guides can be moved without unloading the blank. The line through the guides doesn't take the load of bending the blank so they won't be coming loose on you like they do on one-line stress tests.

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Senad Katana (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: November 07, 2021 10:12AM

Hello John thank for Aero seat reomendation,will give it a try on shorter rods for sure.
Michael thank you for advice,I use Daiwa Morethan 12 braid that I ordered from Japan,its soft round .Aso thinner diameter comparing to other braids.But they are not good around structures .There is new Shimano Grappler 8 braid thats even thinner in diameter but Shimano in Australia havent released it yet (retail price Aus $80, which is cheaper then Morethan by $20),definetely wil get me few spools.
What I meant about Guide placing software,it was saying to put 6 runners and cant space them ,I did add 7th guide just to see how would static load work,and its good.

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: November 07, 2021 11:13AM

Senad, send me an email, please.

I have found that a size 17 spin seat is long-term comfortable. I know the Aeros are comfortable, I've made a couple rods and have used them. But I personally really dislike the appearance. A size 17 works fine for me. Will depend on hand size what works the best. But most find size 16 too small for best ergonomics.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2021 11:16AM by Michael Danek.

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Senad Katana (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: November 07, 2021 04:05PM


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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: November 07, 2021 06:03PM

For the mono line you are planning on using the larger guide set will work well. If you switch to braid than the smaller guide set will be fine. Concerning guide placement, that 1/4” difference between mid point and fully extended reel spool will make absolutely no difference. Using 9 to 10 guides total for your rod will be fine. There is a lot of flexibility involved in setting up a guide train, so don’t be afraid to move the the stripper and/or choke guide in or out a little to accommodate spacing. Think of it as the KR GPS is giving you a suggestion (not an order) for a good starting point; i.e., it is not locked in stone. Place your stripper and choke guide where suggested, then place your other two transition guides progressively between them. Place the first runner about 3.5 to 4.5” from the tip top, then progressively space the other runners between it and the choke guide. As mentioned, you can move the choke and/or stripper in or out a little. Then do a static test to fine tune your spacing, then test cast. If you do this you will be fine, and will have a rod that will cast smooth, quiet and far, and will also fight a big fish very well.

Norm

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: November 07, 2021 07:35PM

Senad,
Listen to and apply the guide spacing suggestions from Norman and Michael; they are respected veterans, know what they are talking about and I have nothing to add.
While I do not (think I) have carpal tunnel syndrome, I have abused my hands for many, many years and consequently my fingers ache constantly, even debilitatingly painful now-and-again. Adding to John’s and Michael’s comments regarding reel seat size, there is no reason to not utilize a larger seat; 18, 20 or possibly even larger. If a larger reel seat is more comfortable / less fatiguing FOR YOU, by all means employ one!!! Who cares if it looks odd!!! That gets right down to the REAL nitty-gritty of what makes a custom rod just that, CUSTOM.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: November 07, 2021 07:48PM

X-2 Mark.

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Michael Sutheimer (---.wi.res.rr.com)
Date: November 08, 2021 03:29AM

The Anglers resource calculator is a great tool. However it is a starting point. Can't think of a single build that I have not tweaked something on the guide layout or added guides. You will build a better rod and enjoy building more when you stop trying to follow the "rules". I know. I used to drive myself crazy trying to reconcile my thoughts with the "rules".

As to the issue with carpal tunnel I would consider braid over mono. You could step down in reel size and have the same or very near the same if not more line capacity. You will lose some drag weight but with some research I am sure you could find a reel similar in drag to the Diawa in a smaller lighter model.

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---)
Date: November 08, 2021 08:50AM

Are the criteria for these guides mainly about function or mainly about appearance? I'm guessing appearance. I have never seen a shred of objective information about the performance of guides, but I would certainly appreciate some actual Facts about guide performance. As for appearance, "There's no accounting for taste!"

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: November 08, 2021 10:17AM

That size reel will give you 100 -110 yards of 14 lb mono, the KR system is only concerned with casting performance, I set,the rest of,the rod up using the static distribution system so the spacing never matches, where the two meet, you'd have a bunch of extra guides if you tried a progressive pattern from your choke guide.

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: November 08, 2021 10:42AM

That size reel will give you 100 -110 yards of 14 lb mono, the KR system is only concerned with casting performance, I set the rest of the rod up using the static distribution system so the spacing never matches, where the two meet. Being a relatively stout blank, I'm not sure you'd notice much difference though if you add the extra guides.

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Re: Need help with kr system guide placement
Posted by: ben belote (---.hsd1.va.comcast.net)
Date: November 09, 2021 11:55AM

Michael is right, there are no rules just guidelines and you should even question them..write your own rules, write your own book on rod building..it,s more fun..lol.

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