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Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: October 10, 2021 07:53PM

Although not precisely related to rod building, hopefully my question regarding the PROPER spooling of a spinning reel is appropriate enough. My quest is to eliminate, or at least significantly reduce, the inherent and dreaded line-twist associated with spinning reels.
For more than 30 years, I simply removed the old line from the reel and threw it on the bank of the first pristine alpine lake I encountered...yah right; hopefully you know me better. Joking aside, I would then mount the new feeder spool on a make-shift axle (3/8in ratchet extension) clamped in the bench vice utilizing rags against the side of the feeder spool for the desired amount of drag / tension. With the empty spinning reel mounted on the (butt portion of the) rod, I threaded the new line through the butt guide and tied it to the spool of the reel. I would then simply crank the reel until the spool was full and the fore-and-aft motion of the spool laid the line down nice and evenly. While fishing, I rarely had any MAJOR issues with line-twist; I learned early-on to use a swivel with spinner-type lures and always let a lure or bait untwist before recasting. Nonetheless, after numerous hours / days of fishing, the dreaded line-twist issue could rear its ugly head from time-to-time; not always, but sometimes.
So I put my habitual over-thinking into overdrive and decided both the reel spool and the feeder spool needed to be parallel / inline with each other while filling the spool of the reel. It seemed to be a simple, easy, logical method to eliminate ANY induced line-twist between the feeder and reel spools. While possibly better, the available spooling fixtures which allow the feeder spool to “tumble” while spooling did not appear to be able to totally eliminate line-twist. I scavenged a spool shaft from a cheapie reel which I didn’t like anyway, mounted the spool of the reel on it, chucked up the other end in my cordless drill and filled away. I used that reel at the local pay-to-play lake all day with NO line twist issue!!! I was so convinced I had solved the spinning reel line-twist issue that I offered (if not insisted) to respool everyone's reels for an upcoming family / friend trip to the Sierra.
Well, 3 of the 8 reels I spooled using my new method experienced noticeable line-twist, almost out-of-the-box; one was my daughter who is very aware of how to fish. My own reel(s) were fine-and-dandy; so were some of the other novices.
Hopefully, the lengthy prelude begins to describe my bewilderment. If ALL the reels experienced NO line-twist (as anticipated), you all would have been saved from having to read this. If ALL the reels DID experience line-twist, I would obviously go back to my original method of re-spooling, and you all would have been spared from reading this as well. But the inconsistency has me scratching my already balding head.
So, is it possible that although spooling a reel spool “in line” with the feeder spool may eliminate any line-twist on the actual spool, does exiting the spool during a cast (90*) create line-twist? Conversely, if the line is spooled onto the reel spool by cranking the handle (as in typical retrieving) which induces line-twist, is that twist countered/ eliminated by the line while exiting the spool during a cast?
In conclusion (you were probably wondering if it would ever end) WHAT IS THE BEST. PRESCRIBED METHOD OF RESPOOLING A SPINNING REEL???? I am here to learn.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: October 10, 2021 08:23PM

To prevent incorporating line twists while re-spooling with monofilament line do the following. Run the line through the guides and tie it to the reel spool using an arbor knot, or something similar. Put the filler spool flat on the floor, and make about 10 or 12 turns of the reel handle. Stop reeling open the bail and pull the line off the reel spool. If it twists then turn the filler spool upside down and repeat, this time you should see no twists when you pull the line off the reel spool. If no twists then fill your reel spool, you should be good to go. You can also switch to braid, it has very little to no memory and does not twist like monofilament or fluorocarbon.
Norm

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: October 10, 2021 08:45PM

Fellows, I have tried filling spinning reels by every method ever suggested.
However, virtually none of the methods have worked for me.

So, any more, I just get the line on the spool as quickly as possible using what ever means possible.

Then, the first time that I take that reel out, I let line off the spool, with 0 terminal tackle on the end of the line; i.e. just line friction in the water pulling the line off of the spool. I do this from the boat when typically getting out to a fishing spot. I pull the line through the water for about 1/8th of a mile. Then, I slow the boat, and with the tip of the rod in the water, I reel all of the line back onto the spool by turning the handle on the spinning reel. Then, I use the rod and reel for fishing.

With this method, I get a nice long time of use from the reel and spool, before the line begins to twist again. Virtually every spinning reel, when used enough will end up with a twisted line. When that happens, I simply go back to the lake and on the way out let line off the spool, until the spool is empty - pull the line through the water for some distance - slow the boat and with the tip of the rod in the water, reel the line back on the spool.

The easy and quick way to put line n the reel is to use a lathe type chuck on a speed controlled lathe or line filling machine and fill the spool.

This is what is done when the line is filled at a sporting goods or fishing store - and it has the same results that the line will begin twisting quite quickly with use.

So, again, I go the line in the water - being pulled for a distance to both wet the line and straighten out the twists - and having the line reeled back onto the reel.

Best wishes.

Mark,
The best way to fill a spinning reel spool is with a 5000 rpm chuck on a line filling machine. Then, follow up with a line in the water for 1/8th of a mile and reel the line back on the spool, using the spinning reel itself. This gets the job done - long term in the shortest time possible.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: David Baylor (---.res6.spectrum.com)
Date: October 10, 2021 08:48PM

Mark, I use fluorocarbon line as the main line for my spinning reels, so I feel your pain. I pretty much gave up on trying to keep the twist out of the line when putting fresh line on. I've tried the method Norman described, I've tried it by reeling it on like I would a bait casting reel, only the line coming off the bottom of the spool instead of the top. and neither of them work. I've come down to either these two methods. If I don't have time to take the rods out on the boat and let line out behind the boat and just reeling back in, I will walk the length of my yard (about 100') and let line out along the ground and reel it back in. When I do it on land I pinch the line between my thumb and index finger as I reel it in. Doing so pushes the twist toward the end of the line.

Either way, either on the water or on land, I end up doing the process two times before I am really satisfied with it.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: October 10, 2021 09:35PM

Well, as you might know, I do as David does, I have about a 500yd.straight shot from my back deck. If it's too great in spool capacity I have a lawn tractor. Snapper is what I use, smooth and responsive. Some might say "soulful". You can also go to the end of the yard around something smooth and back doubling your available distance.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: October 10, 2021 10:42PM

Thank you so much for the great replies from great, respected repliers.
Norman,
I haven’t thought of flipping the feeder spool over, which should be the same as taking the line off the bottom of the spool rather than the top as with my newer “parallel spooling” method = I’ll give it a shot. As for substituting my mono/fluoro for braid, I will be honest and say that probably will not happen. I just tried it this last week in the Sierra for the first time and was not pleased; but I will not use anything else for nearshore or offshore in the salt.
Roger,
Many years ago I observed a few anglers on saltwater party boats letting their line out behind the underway boat to help reduce the spiraled pig-tails in their line and tried it numerous times, both in the ocean and from a boat in the Sierra well. Sorry, but I found the corkscrewed line passing through the water made twisting matters worse, with or without weight, although common thinking would certainly suggest otherwise.?.?.?
David,
Apparently you have experienced my dilemma as well and thanks for replying. There must be a better method of eliminating line-twist than attempting to force it ahead of one’s pinched fingers before it reaches the spool.
While I am humbly grateful for the replies from seasoned veterans and will apply their input to help solve the inherent and annoying aspect of spinning reel line-twist, I am hoping for someone with a magic wand (come on Rich F.) to put my line-twist dilemma behind me. Maybe it is simply one of those things in life that just needs to be accepted and dealt with accordingly. With the inconsistency of my observations and attempts to rectify, I am admittedly at a loss and seeking help.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 11, 2021 07:59AM

What Norman is suggesting is to take the line off the stationary line spool with the line coming off in the opposite direction as the rotation of the rotor of the reel. If the rotor rotates clockwise when looking at its shaft end, have the line come off the source spool counterclockwise when looking at the end of the stationary spool.

This is based on the physics of the spinning reel putting one twist in the line for every revolution. Taking the line off the source spool in this way is intended to counter this.

This process is complicated in most cases by that troublesome notch in the edge of the source spools.

Taking the reel spool off and rotating it in a chuck and taking the line off the rotating source spool is ideal if one wants to bother with it. That makes it just like a baitcaster which does not twist the line as it takes in line.

Mark, keep in mind that all braids are not the same. I use braid exclusively on spin outfits and find it much less troublesome than mono, infinitely better than FC. But I use premium braids (8 strands or more). Pricey, but they last for years, so it really isn't that pricey. Try Hitena Pureline up to about 20 pound test or 15 pound or lower pound test Suffix 832. I would think that braid would be great on your traditional glass rods that you like so much. I think everyone who has used braid will agree that it does not react to line twist as much as mono or FC. It can be pretty twisted and still perform well.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Joe Vanfossen (131.123.51.---)
Date: October 11, 2021 08:42AM

Flip that spool so the line comes off the top, just like when doing a bait caster. Keep it under tension, and all should be good. It's what I've been doing for the last 20 or so years. When I was a teenager, I started putting the spool between my big toes and used my feet to control tension with the line running through every guide on the rod. It works, and has built up a couple good callouses on the insides of my toes. The tension I go for is similar to reeling in about a 1lb fish. It's enough to put a decent bend in most of my lighter power bass rods. This has virtually eliminated line twist for me.

If you want some logic for the technique, it is sending the line off the spool in the opposite direction from which it was put on, so there should be no twist involved here. When the line gets to the roller, its memory wants to wrap around the spool roller when the roller is between the reel and the rod (the shortest path to the reel). From there, the reel should twist the line and lay down coils, just like coiling up a garden hose. With too little tension, the line does not twist properly and the coils get laid down incorrectly causing them to want to spring out when the line leaves during a cast leading to a host of problems.

Note: If you use a spooling station where the reel is pointed up, then yes the line should come from the bottom of the spool as some will suggest because you have flipped the entire system upside-down.

Mark, double check the line rollers on the inconsistent reels and make sure they are rotating freely. A stuck or less than smooth roller can cause issues. I have similar sentiments about braid. It just doesn't get along with me. I've always closed my bail by hand and given the line a little tug to seat it, but I still get some nasty wind knots in my braid. I'll continue trying to get used to it for another season or two, but after that, it'll be back to normal mono if I can't get it to work out.

There is nothing that will make line twist go away fully, because you need those 'hose coils' to lay down correctly each and every cast. If they don't or you have something on the end of your line inducing twist all bets are off.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 11, 2021 09:38AM

Because of the physics of the issue, the coiling and uncoiling, if one uses the drag excessively, as in reeling in while the drag is letting out line, more twist is induced. Theoretically, every use of the drag causes some twist.

I think it's worth repeating: All braid is not the same.

Try using equivalent pound tests, like 20 pound mono and see how it works. I use 21 pound Hitena Pureline on my spin rig I take as backup on my bonefish trip (and use it in MI too) and have little to no trouble (I've had one wind knot in probably 3 years of using the same line) , casts a "mile," allows 150 yards + on my Stradic 4000, zero stretch, and is strong enough for everything I fish for, including cudas. This combination of attributes is simply impossible with mono. 15 pound Suffix 832 appears to be excellent too based on about a year of use on another rig.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: ben belote (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: October 11, 2021 10:14AM

i rarely have twist problems but think it,s because i use braid and fish wiith cranking type baits and not worms on my spinning outfits..worms can really twist if not the least bit straight..i fish worms and heavier jigs on casting outfits, light jigs on spin..i used to have twisted leader problems with fly fishing deer hair bass bugs that i made with wings but pretty much corrected that by making my own tapered leaders out of 60 to 80# power pro and doing a better job of tying in the wings on the bugs..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2021 10:35AM by ben belote.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: October 11, 2021 10:40AM

Anyone tried the Piscifun line winder gizmo, sure flops around a lot, but it's supposed to get the job done well.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: October 11, 2021 11:36AM

Mark,
In spite of your comment about the lack of success using the method in your locations, for myself and friends in a fresh water environment with reelin the line, back in after trailing the line full out the +the tip of the rod underwater+ solves the line twist every time.

If the boat is going fast, so that the line simply bounces along the top of the water it won't work. If the line is being pulled in with too much speed on the boat, it won't work. But, as long as the boat is simply moving along at a closed throttle seeing on the way out and the way back in - for myself and my friends at least - this is the only method that I have ever found that gives me many hours of use on the spinning reel before having to repeat it again.

The nature of fishing with a spinning reel, sometimes slipping the drag when reeling in a fish and the very nature of a spinning reel operation will eventually put many many twists in the line.

Remember, when the line is let out to be trailed behind the boat there can be NOTHING on the end of the line. The terminal end of the line needs to be bare of any lure, any weight, any hook, any swivel. Just a bare line behind the boat to untwist itself under the force of the sea.

Remember, no matter how perfect the line is put on the spool, the dynamics of fishing with a spinning reel, is going to twist the line eventually. But, the empty line behind the boat will untwist it every time. If the line does not completely untwist in 1/8th of a mile, then, drag it for 1/4 of a mile. Yes, the line will untwist and give you twist free fishing until it eventually twists again.

Best wishes.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Gary Weber (173.241.113.---)
Date: October 11, 2021 01:36PM

Hi,
When I spool mono on land, as David does, I use a wet paper towel between my finger and thumb. It seems to work well for me.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Jordan Smith (---.evrt.wa.ptr.ziplyfiber.com)
Date: October 11, 2021 03:49PM

I rarely fish spinning reels these days. However, back when I fished them more, I used to place the freshly spooled spool in a bucket of warm/hot (not too hot) water and let it sit until the water was cold. This process seemed to help reset the line memory, at least to the point the line wouldn't all flip off the spool when you released the bail...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/11/2021 03:50PM by Jordan Smith.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: October 11, 2021 04:36PM

Thank you Lynn, Michael, Joe, Ben and Spencer for your appreciated replies as well. It is comforting to know I can always rely on you guys (including Norman, Roger and David) to help me (at least attempt to) solve issues. Combining all the replies, I have concluded that my new method of keeping the spool of the reel and filler spool inline to eliminate ANY twist while spooling may be flawed. It goes back to the question I asked in the original post:
“So, is it possible that although spooling a reel spool “in line” with the feeder spool may eliminate any line-twist on the actual spool, does exiting the spool during a cast (90*) create line-twist? Conversely, if the line is spooled onto the reel spool by cranking the handle (as in typical retrieving) which induces line-twist, is that twist countered/ eliminated by the line while exiting the spool during a cast?”
While deciphering all the methods of the replies, there is one constant = CRANKING the line onto the reel; not inline spool to spool as with my “new” method. I have concluded that although line-twist is induced onto the reel spool as it is cranked on, that twist is “countered / eliminated by the line while exiting the spool during a cast”. The crucial part is making sure there is no line-twist to begin with! Roger’s “trolling” or David’s “backyard” methods would serve this purpose well. Joe’s is pretty-much the same as my “30 year old” method which should be devoid of twists unless there is line-twist already in the filler spool (I doubt there is or at least shouldn’t be). Norman’s method is a little bit different from the others. While his method also employs cranking the line onto the reel spool, taking the line off the SIDE of the filler spool induces line-twist. But I take note of two things here; 1. The filler spool is ~ 3X larger than the reel spool = 33% less twists than the reel spool per revolution (I might have to include pi to be more accurate), 2. The direction the line comes off the filler spool is critical (I can only assume opposite that of the reel spool). Since all spinning reels rotate in the same direction (?) once the direction of the line coming off the filler spool is determined, one would not have to check each time as Norman offered. I am uncertain if 33% less line-twist on the reel spool is better or not but it could be that “magic wand” secret that Rich Forhan isn’t informing us about. One way or the other, it is certainly worth a try.
So, I have concluded (for now) that my brain-storm of “inline respooling” may have actually been brain-flatulence. While it initially seemed to be the answer to eliminate line-twist, sometimes I can be guilty of not being able to see the forest through the trees. Closer inspection may have revealed that line-twist on the reel spool is actually required to counter the twists created as the line leaves the spool during a cast.
The one thing that still perplexes me is the inconsistency and why some of my reels were fine while others had nasty line-twists. I will certainly take Joe’s recommendation and check the line roller on the reels. To be honest, I am embarrassed to admit I never have; dang rookies.
One last thing concerning braid. While never experiencing difficulty tying a FG knot between 20lb mono and 50lb braid (or bigger), I had difficulty tying to do so with 4lb mono/FC to 10lb braid. Although I consider the FG knot to be the best, what do you “braid guys” do / use? I am still not sold on braid for the Sierra, especially if having to spend so much time (and trouble) tying knots.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: October 11, 2021 05:47PM

My god Mark! You are really over thinking this, it’s not that difficult. I used to fish with mono for many, many years before braid came along, and did not have many problems with the line twisting once I learned how to spool the line on the reel. The three major causes of line twisting are: (1) re-spooling in the opposite direction from how the line is spooled on the filler spool; (2) cranking against the drag; and (3) using a lure that twists when retrieving. To remove line twists, remove all terminal tackle and let the line out in a moving boat, or in the current and reel it back in. Can even do this in your yard as some have mentioned. If you are still having twisting problems after all of this, then change your brand of line and go with a softer, thinner and more flexible line. Such a line has less memory and causes fewer problems. If you still have problems switch to braid and leave your mono twisting problems behind. You can connect thin braid to a thin mono/fluorocarbon leader using a variety of knots that are easy to tie and work quite well. The use of thin line and leader makes for a connecting knot that is thin and thus will easily pass through any size runner you opt to use. I use to use the double uni knot, Alberto knot, slim beauty, and surgeons knot among others and they all worked very well and are easier to tie than the FG knot. For heavier leaders I exclusively use the FG knot, I’ve gotten so I can tie it pretty quickly, even with thin line. Braid casts better, increases sensitively, is not as UV sensitive, is not prone to twisting, and lasts forever. I stopped using mono many years ago in favor of braid, and have never looked back. The only time I will use mono is fishing from shore where hangs ups are common and require breaking off, but I rarely do that kind of fishing any more.
Norm

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 11, 2021 06:45PM

I have found the FG to be unreliable on the lighter leaders. I think it was designed for salt with heavy leaders. If you take one apart with a razor blade you'll see its success lies in its deforming the leader, making a mechanical interference connection in addition to its "Chinese finger trap" grabbing of the leader. If I am right about the mechanical aspect, it is logical that the knot would not be as good on smaller diameter leaders. And the half hitches on top keep it from unravelling. Even with heavy leaders it is easy for me to screw it up. Some recommend many more weaves than the usual instructions, but that is counterproductive in that it prevents the knot from properly tightening and deforming the leader adequately. On other forums the discussions on the FG go on and on. And on.

I use 4 mm runners with usually 15 pound test leaders and use the "Danek Improved Alberto" knot, which for me is the easiest and most reliable of the smaller knots. Just follow the instructions on the on-line knot tutorials, set it very tightly, then tie two tightly set half hitches of the tag end of the braid up against the knot.

Bottom line on spinning reel line twist is exactly as Norman says, IMHO.

While I could be wrong, I don't think the diameters of the respective spools have a lot to do with it unless they get very far out of size synch. The big thing is to take it off the source spool in the opposite direction as the reel rotor rotates. Then if you still have some twist, you've done as well as you reasonably can, so just drag it . Again, as Norman says. I have not found it necessary to drag it.

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: October 11, 2021 06:55PM

Mark, and anyone else, here is a link on how to tie various fishing knots.
[www.netknots.com]
Norm

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: October 12, 2021 01:05PM

If you want to avoid knot failures with braid and fluorocarbon leaders, don't use leaders. Rather just tie the line directly to a snap or swivel or the hook or lure. If you want to use a leader, then, use a swivel. Tie the leader to the swivel and then tie the swivel and leader to the braided line. Too many people get all hung up on using a fluorocarbon leader for their fishing when - many places and fish species do not require the use of any leader to catch just as many fish without a leader.

If you want to use a swivel with your fishing, and many people do, just make sure that the tip top and all guides on the rod will accommodate the size of the swivel. Or, use a leader that is shorter than the rod and never try to reel the swivel through a small tip top and running guides.

Best wishes

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Re: Proper Re-Spooling of a Spinng Reel???
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: October 12, 2021 04:56PM

I want to use a leader so I don't keep cutting my braid off and I want a "fuse" in the system. If I'm using 21 pound Hitena Pureline, a premium, high performance braid, I don't want it to break and I don't want it to be cut off with lure changes, damaged last few inches by pike, etc. So I use a 15 pound leader. With the knots I use if I have to break off the terminal knot will break leaving most of my leader and all of my braid intact.

It's not simply about the fish seeing the line. It's about the total system and how it performs as we want it to.

I cannot imagine having a swivel go through the guides or having guides so large that one could. Different strokes, I suppose. The only time I use swivels is with the big ones I use with a Carolina rig.

I have not had a failure of the leader to braid knot since I went to the Alberto with the added two half hitches I described earlier. If one uses large enough guides then the double uni will pass through just fine, and it is about as simple a knot to tie as there is. If one cannot tie a double uni, they might want to take up another pastime. Maybe bingo. (sorry, sarcasm alert!)

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