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Guide prep ?
Posted by: David Janes (---)
Date: September 07, 2021 07:13PM

So I've seen a lot on guide prep about shaping and fililng down the leading edge of the guides. My question is can you also file down/shape the sides of the guide to reduce the gap when rapped. I have a guide that when rapped has a signifigant space under the thread that I don't think you could get filled with epoxy and stay hollow. I'm thinking of just reducing the guides edges to get a smoother transition to the rod. I personally can't imagine it being a problem as long as I don't take to much off.

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---)
Date: September 07, 2021 07:31PM

Yes - you can, and should, do that. But don't destroy the guides lateral stability.
As far as filling the tunnels: I always fill the tunnels before I apply finish any other part of the wrap.
Continuously apply fresh finish to the tunnel opening until the finish wicks all the way to the end of the guide foot. This way you are sure that there are no hollow spots in the tunnel. It's the best way to ensure that spaces under the guide feet are also filled.
Also - do not let the tunnel opening to get starved of finish. If you do you will introduce bubbles under the wrap. Keep a good amount of finish at the opening at all times.
when finish wicks all the way in - remove the excess at the tunnel opening with wax free dental floss - or a piece of paper.
Herb

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (71.147.59.---)
Date: September 08, 2021 12:37AM

David,
As with many (most?) questions regarding aspects of rod building, you will receive quantifiable differences of opinion / facts, belief / myth, truth / fiction. Any “dressing” at all of a guide foot is, and will remain, a hotly contested debate. I understand and even agree with both sides. But if producing a cleaner ramp up the tip of the guide foot is required, then so be it. That being said, if I had to “dress” the sides of a guide foot, I would certainly find a different guide!!!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Herb Ladenheim (---)
Date: September 08, 2021 10:18AM

Fuji K guides have "club-like" foot ends. It makes for a neater wrap if the feet are tapered in plan view.
Herb

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Mark Hahn (---.157.18.98.static.ip.windstream.net)
Date: September 08, 2021 11:00AM

David,
Like many things in rod building; less is often best. Any dressing needed should be only what is needed and no more. You'll find as many reasons for this as there are people offering comment. However, it is far too easy to overdo the grinding.

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: September 08, 2021 11:24AM

David,
You can not prep a guide foot at all.
You can prep just the top side of the guide foot a little, a little more or a lot.
You can prep the underside of the guide foot non, a little, a little more or a lot.

For myself, I prefer to prep every single guide that I ever put on a rod blank.

To do that, I use my 30 inch - 1 inch wide - belt sander with about 220 grit paper on the sander.

A guide foot holder that I made to hold a guide while prepping. I use different size machine screws to fit inside the ring of a guide foot. I prep the length of the machine screws used on the holder, so that I only have to spin the nut on and tighten it about 1 turn to secure the guide foot:

[www.rodbuilding.org]

Here is a picture of the guide holder being used on the 30 x 1 inch belt sander:
[www.rodbuilding.org]

I also keep a flat arkansas stone next to the belt sander. The last thing that I will do is to run the guide foot across the flat stone - to insure that there is no grinding debris from the guide foot that will possibly damage the rod blank.

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: David Janes (---)
Date: September 08, 2021 01:45PM

Thanks for all the feed back. I guess like a lot of things with rod building, it's trial and error and what works for you. I'll try shaping it a litle more to my liking and see what happens.

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Roger Templon (---.paw.cpe.atlanticbb.net)
Date: September 08, 2021 06:25PM

Im with Roger. I prep every guide that I install on a rod. I also slightly round the sides of the guide foot to allow a smoother coating of finish over the top of the foot. A sharp square edge on the top of the foot is difficult to get any finish depth at that spot. I also "file" the foot bottoms with the appropriate sized chainsaw file and taper the point of the foot (needle files) to make it easier and neater to wrap the thread up the point of the foot. My finished rods look so much nicer when I take a little time to prep!

Rog

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: September 08, 2021 07:26PM

Roger Templon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Im with Roger. I prep every guide that I install
> on a rod. I also slightly round the sides of the
> guide foot to allow a smoother coating of finish
> over the top of the foot. A sharp square edge on
> the top of the foot is difficult to get any finish
> depth at that spot. I also "file" the foot bottoms
> with the appropriate sized chainsaw file and taper
> the point of the foot (needle files) to make it
> easier and neater to wrap the thread up the point
> of the foot. My finished rods look so much nicer
> when I take a little time to prep!
>
> Rog

Outstanding.

..............

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Richard Bowers (---.ptld.qwest.net)
Date: September 09, 2021 11:01AM

I would interject a word of caution when prepping black, titanium or other colored guide feet. If you use an untreated thread and do not use Color Preserver, the thread turns translucent and you can see the guide feet. I particularly like this effect. The problem is that you can also see the change in the color where the finish on the foot has been removed, especially with black guides.

I personally only dress the guide feet if I have no other reasonable alternative. I have become quite adept and tweaking the feet with a pair of flat-faced pliars so I can get the thread to climb up over the end of the foot.

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: September 09, 2021 03:17PM

Richard,
I normally use black guides and I dress and grind every guide that I put on a rod. After dressing the rod, I go over every guide foot with a permanent black sharpie pen to color the guide back to black. In all of the years doing this, I have not had any bad reactions of a guide foot or the finish coming free from the guide foot.

Take care

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 09, 2021 05:28PM

Gotta admit. I'm not going with this "gotta prep all guides" stuff. First, the micro running guides I use for 6 of the 9 guides on a 7 foot rod are so small one can hardly see the guide, so whether it's tip is tapered or its sides are ground is not a realistic issue. On the other three, I simply sand the guide gently to help the thread climb, and the shape is not all that offensive to me or anyone else I've built for. I disturb the finish only slightly, and the rods fish great (that's the criteria, right Roger?).

I think this is an issue, as there are many, where many builders obsess over the minuscule, irrelevant, details.

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Mark Talmo (---)
Date: September 09, 2021 07:35PM

As mentioned previously, I dress the ramp of guide feet to produce a cleaner, easier transition for the thread while climbing up the foot which, in turn, also affords a nicer overall appearance of the wrap. That is simply my opinion and will not argue with those who do not see the need.
But I also acknowledge, understand and even agree with respected industry professionals such as Jim Ising of Anglers Resource / Fuji that there are ramifications involved with dressing guide feet that people need to know and accept before “grinding away”. It involves the surface treatment of metals (even stainless steel) to reduce corrosion, and many guides undergo such treatment. Certainly, “passivation” is the most common which is basically dunking the metal in a bath of nitric or citric acid (citric being more environmentally-friendly) to remove iron particles (which rust) from the surface; no exposed iron = no rust. Fuji’s new Corrosion Control (CC, BC) is a trade secret but presumably similar. As soon as even 0.001in is removed from the surface, fresh iron particles are exposed which is why Jim advises to NOT dress the guide foot. It certainly makes sense, I understand and agree.
I have a very neglectful saltwater customer who I have had to replace Fuji CC guides on rods I built for him. While there were outward signs of some corrosion, and after removing the guide, the tip of the foot which I originally dressed was clean and rust-free. With all due and deserved respect, sorry Jim, I’ll continue dressing my guide feet until manufacturers produce perfect ramps.

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: September 09, 2021 08:34PM

I never dress a guide foot unless I absolutely have to, and then it’s just a matter of roughing it up a little to give the thread some traction. It’s a personal choice to dress or not dress. I personally don’t think it’s necessary, but that’s just my opinion.
Norm

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: ben belote (---.hfc.comcastbusiness.net)
Date: September 09, 2021 08:40PM

another vote for not dressing here.

Re: Guide prep ?
Posted by: Aaron Petersen (12.144.64.---)
Date: September 10, 2021 08:03AM

I check for burrs on the bottom and make sure the tips aren't deformed. I have had almost no need for prep in the Fuji K series I mostly use now. The CRB elite guides I used to use for family gift rods sometimes needed the tip filed slightly because the single foot guides can have a lip created by the finish. In the past year I changed everything to Fuji K series because the cost is made up for in quality and time saved.

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