OK. I understand the KR Concept a lot better than I did when I first heard of its existence on this rod board weeks ago. I am now ready to try to pick some guides. NFC SJ703...7ft blank. I use a Penn 450SS more than any other reel, but I've got many reels still in boxes that I may break out one day, the smaller ones being 2500s. After studying this board a little, it looks like I have two reasonable choices for a reduction train in KR Concept for blanks like mine....a smaller version KL16H, KL8H, and 5.5M......and a larger version KL20H, KL10H, and KL6L. Personally, I think I like the larger version better for the 450SS with 12 to 15 pound braid. Does that sound right?

Then there is the issue of the running guides. I understand the difference between the construction of the KB vs the KTs , but I have no clue how many KBs I would use over what distance before running the rest with KTs. Then there is the issue of ring size. If there is a standard reasoning for where, how many and size, I do not know what that is. The reasoning I refer to (if it exists) would be a system that I could use to build a 7, 71/2 or even 8 foot rod using the same 12-15 pound braid. So for sure I am still in some darkness. Any help would be appreciated.

I always use at least 2 and sometimes 3 KB's. I'd go with the 20 red. train.

Use this site: [anglersresource.net]
Follow the instruction for the stripper and reduction guides then static test for placement of runners.

I built a similar rod last year (DS 6107-1 (IM)) and built it for a 3000 size reel. I ended up using KL20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M, then a single KB5, and KT5 running guides. The rod casts great! I could have went with the 16H recommendation but decided to go a size up for when I want to use larger line.

The KB has a longer and wider “foot” than the KT and is typically used as the choke guide? and/or for larger diameter blanks? ... I believe this is correct.

Ernie,
Your basic understanding of the KR Concept is quite good. Regarding the reduction-train, you are throwing a bit of a curve-ball by employing relatively small 12-15lb braid with a relatively larger 4500 reel; based on line-size, I would use the KL-16H, 8H, 5.5M but based on reel size the KL-20H, 10H, 5.5M might be a better choice. All things considered, the larger reduction-train might be the best given your parameters.
As for KBs verses KTs, I am a bit unorthodox in their usage as I do not consider the miniscule amount of additional weight of the KBs to be of major concern = I use as many KBs as the diameter of the blank (tip section) will allow, including ULs; the longer, wider, scalloped-edge of the KBs assures me that they will stay put. I am certainly aware of the detrimental effect of ANY additional weight (tip section in particular) imposes on a rod, but that is just my view on things.
Ring size of the runners is totally up to you. Personally, I do not use smaller than a size 5; even that small/large is difficult for an old man like me to thread-wrap on the blank or thread line through on the water! lol Pick your poison!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

" I use a Penn 450SS more than any other reel"

Wow, that's a classic they haven't made the 450 SS in decades if that's really the model # you have . Penn now makes reels in the 4500 sizes , 5500 , 6500, 7500 and into some real heavyweights but the classic Spinfisher SS series are true classics. Those reals unfortunately are not great with braid although many use braid on them I did for years in the past . If you have the classic 450 SS I would definitely opt for the larger 20 size guide ring for the sole reason of that reel being specifically built for mono NOT braid. Those particular spinners do not throw small tight loops like the Shimano small spinners do with their propulsion spool lip design which were specifically designed for use with braid.

However if you made a mistake with the model # and really have a newer Penn spinner in the 2500 - 4500 size then you can go with a 16 stripper ( Penn's newer spinners in the 2500 - 4500 size range have spools that are essentially the same diameter with the larger 4500 just having a deeper spool for additional line capacity. The spool diameters tend to jump in size when you get to the 5500 - 6500 size range .

The NFC SJ703 is a light to medium light blank, it would certainly be overwhelmed with the size and weight of the Penn 450ss. I grew up with Penn reels and had several of the old Penn SS models. However, when I started using braid I gave them all away. I would certainly use a smaller, lighter and a more braid friendly reel with that blank. On that particular blank using a smaller and lighter reel (1000 to 3000) with light braid you could use either the KL16H or KL20H based reduction trains, the choice would be yours. If using a larger reel and/or heavier braid then go with the KL20H based reduction. I follow the reduction train with 1 or 2 KB guides, which are then followed by KT guides to the tip. I mostly use size 4.5 or 5 KB/KT runners, with a matching LG tip top, if using stainless guides, or a KG tip top, if using titanium guides. I have built several SJ703 spin rods and use a total of nine guides, not counting the tip top. This will be one more guide then recommended by the KR GPS. This extra guide helps to insure that you get a good static test with progressively spaced guides. The stripper will be about 19 to 20” in front of the reel spool and the choke guide will be about 20” to 22” in front of the stripper. I progressively space the other two reduction guides between the stripper and the choke and progressively space the other runners between the choke and tip top. I will move the choke and/or the stripper in or out a little to get a good progressive layout that casts well. If you need more specific information contact me.
Norm

Because I want the option of going larger on reel size and line weight, except for ultra-lights, I always use the 20-10-5.5 reduction train. The difference in weight, especially where it is located on the rod, is insignificant compared with the 16-8-5.5. I just test cast a 20-10-5.5 with 21 pound Hitena Pure Line and it cast a "mile." With a 4000 Stradic. It will do as well with lighter lines and smaller reels.

chris c nash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> " I use a Penn 450SS more than any other reel"
>
> Wow, that's a classic they haven't made the 450 SS
> in decades if that's really the model # you have .
> Penn now makes reels in the 4500 sizes , 5500 ,
> 6500, 7500 and into some real heavyweights but the
> classic Spinfisher SS series are true classics.
> Those reals unfortunately are not great with braid
> although many use braid on them I did for years in
> the past . If you have the classic 450 SS I would
> definitely opt for the larger 20 size guide ring
> for the sole reason of that reel being
> specifically built for mono NOT braid. Those
> particular spinners do not throw small tight loops
> like the Shimano small spinners do with their
> propulsion spool lip design which were
> specifically designed for use with braid.
>
> However if you made a mistake with the model # and
> really have a newer Penn spinner in the 2500 -
> 4500 size then you can go with a 16 stripper (
> Penn's newer spinners in the 2500 - 4500 size
> range have spools that are essentially the same
> diameter with the larger 4500 just having a deeper
> spool for additional line capacity. The spool
> diameters tend to jump in size when you get to the
> 5500 - 6500 size range .


First off, thank you all for your responses. I will be in good shape when I am placing the order for the guides. Chris....I got a good laugh when you questioned if I had made an error in the Penn model number. Not only did I not, but I've got several of them in various sizes. And to make it even more unbelievable, there is an outfit that used to, and still may, offer numerous parts for these reels as I believe they bought whatever Penn had left of them at whatever point in time that was. I bought all the parts I could think of that are likely to fail from chronic use, and they are still in the box they sent them in many years ago. My Penn reels will outlive me I'm sure. That's why I have so many new reels in unopened boxes that most would consider far superior reels in general. My grandkids will enjoy them some day. Maybe even I will enjoy them some day. :-) I also have a 4500SS that I inherited. I like the old ones better.

And Norm....you may hear from me yet!

That's fantastic Ernie , I do the same with my beloved spinners . There's a reason why Penn brought back the legendary 704 and 706 Z reels , they last forever and maintenance is so ridiculously easy . Unfortunately except for the models still made in the Philadelphia factory most of Penns offerings are Penn in name only they just don't make them like they used to.