Hi Guy & Girls, hoping to get some advice on a build I have coming up. Rod is for my wife.
Blank is a mhx sj 842
Reel 2500 shimano spin reel 10lb braid.
Looking to use alps y guides for reduction and f guide for runners. Will 25,16, 10,8, then 6 to tip work OK? Have used fuji guides before with this set up but used a 8L (low) for that size.
Any recommendations be great.
Tight lines Scott.

Fuji KR concept guides.

Sounds larger than necessary to me, that's what I use for 12 lb.+ mono rods.

If you want to go 25, I would go 25,12, then F series 6 followed by 6’s to tip. I would however recommend 20, 10, then f series 6 out to the tip. Set up in a bullseye pattern. Place butt guide at 20” from tip of spool and as mentioned bullseye the remainder (10 &6) then progressively space runners to the tip. I personally step my runners down to 3’s or 2.5’s. If you are not passing a knot 4’s are a great compromise of not being too tiny yet not so large as to add unnecessary weight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2021 04:31PM by Thomas Kaufmann.

Scott

Yes.....Batson guides will work just fine! I have used Y25 - Y16 - Y10 - F6 - with F6 or MG 5 or MG4 runners, and also Y25 - Y12 - F6 - with F6 or MG5 or MG4 runners. Another setup is Y20 - Y12 or Y10 - F6 with 6 or 5 or 4 runners, but I usually start with 25's just in case I would want to upsize the reel for whatever reason. I use #8 - 10 mono / #8 fluoro / #15 - 20 braid almost all of the time. Fuji and AT guides will also work just fine in these guide trains. Most of my reels are #2500 / #3000 sizes.

Rog

In my opinion you can’t go wrong with Fuji KR concept guides. You have two options for the reduction train. The first is KL16H, KL8H, and KL5.5M, which will work great with the line and reel you listed. The second option is KL20H, KL10H, and KL5.5M, which will give a little more versatility if you ever want to use a larger reel and/ or heavier line. For the runners I would use 2 KB guides with the rest being KT guides, and all being the same size and in a size of your choice. I would use either a size 5 or 4.5 KB/KT runners. Use the KR GPS at Anglers Resource to get a good starting point for the guide layout. For your rod I have used 9 guides total, which will be at least one more runner than recommended by the GPS. If you need more specific information let us know.
Norm

Personally I find the Y frame guides more aesthetically pleasing than the tall frame match or KR style guides. So, I tend to use the Ys on my spinning builds (Alps steel frames with aluminum oxide inserts). It's a personal preference, as there is nothing wrong with those guides and they can offer a little weight savings.

Roger gives a couple good setups. However, I tend to opt for a 20Y, 10Y, 6F or 5F at the choker position followed by 6Fs, 5Fs, or 4Fs to the tip. The 5s do a good job of offering a bit of weight savings near the tip and maintaining the ability to pass knots well. Personally I tie direct to braid in most circumstances and use 6-8lb mono more often on my spinning reels, so dropping to 4s is my preferred way of doing things. There are options that I can get to pass through those guides just fine if I choose to use a leader, as I've found I can pass a well trimmed nail knot bobber stop through 3mm running guides just fine.

Some observations I've made when setting up spinning guide trains. When working with the 27x NGC technique, I find that I need to go to the set of 3 reduction guides when working with 2500 and larger reels. Following the rules results in the 25, 16, 10 Y frames. If you want to take advantage of a rapid reduction, pull the choke point back to around 40". In this case, the 25, 12, or 20, 10 reduction trains work well. Similarly, if you want to use Batson or Pac Bay match frames instead of the KR style guides, dropping one ring size will give you guides that have very similar heights to the Y frames, i.e. a Y frame 25, 16, 10 reduction train goes to Match frame 20, 12, 8.

One of the best things I did when I started building was to buy a set of steel frame aluminum oxide insert spinning guides that included at least one guide each of V-frame 30, 25, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8, 6; Y-frame 25, 20, 16, 12, 10, 8, 6; Match frame 20, 16, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4. This gave me the ability to see and feel how each of these guide compared in height, weight, as well as provide a set of guides that I could pull from to set up spinning guide trains. That way, if for some reason I decided that I wanted Ti frames or upgraded or PVD coated inserts, I could set up the build, test cast, and then order exactly what I needed. The guides that I bought then were from Batson, however, when you compare specs across different manufacturers the heights for the same sized insert tend to be similar in similar frame styles. You could drop the V-frames these days, but they give you a good sense of how much weight actually gets removed from an older style guide train when compared to a modern NGC or KR guide train.

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my opinion you can’t go wrong with Fuji KR
> concept guides. You have two options for the
> reduction train. The first is KL16H, KL8H, and
> KL5.5M, which will work great with the line and
> reel you listed. The second option is KL20H,
> KL10H, and KL5.5M, which will give a little more
> versatility if you ever want to use a larger reel
> and/ or heavier line. For the runners I would use
> 2 KB guides with the rest being KT guides, and all
> being the same size and in a size of your choice.
> I would use either a size 5 or 4.5 KB/KT runners.
> Use the KR GPS at Anglers Resource to get a good
> starting point for the guide layout. For your rod
> I have used 9 guides total, which will be at least
> one more runner than recommended by the GPS. If
> you need more specific information let us know.
> Norm

I really like Norms second option. That's how I build all my spinning rods. They are very easy to fish and cast the best. You could still do it with any brand of high frame guide but the ring sizes are dead on. If you want to stay with Alps, do the LF frame guides. I personally like the look and use Norman's sizes. I think you are using too many sizes with your original layout. At least look at the Fuji KLH guides he recommends. Seaguide makes a very similar guide also.

That guide train is almost exactly the size I use on my largest surf rods except the first two reduction guides are an RV 25 , RV 16 , KW10M , KB 5 and KT 5 runners . I virtually never use braid over 20 pound.

If your wife plans on sticking to that Shimano 2500 reel with 10 pound braid your guide should be more along the lines of a 16 size first reduction or a 20 size ring as the largest if the heights work out . Going with a 25 size ring with that small a reel with that small a spool and using 10 pound braid results in wasted efficiency.

With braided lines larger ring sizes zap efficiency , it's lost energy because there's so much extra room inside that ring which light braid doesn't need , larger rings offer absolutely nothing beneficial when using braided lines in the 20 pounds and under category. You want a guide size that directs the line forward with as little side to side and up and down movement as possible. Think what happens when you experience strong crosswinds when fishing with a rod with large guides and light memory free line . Smaller ring sizes restrict that line movement inside the ring and prevent lost energy. The line is directed forward in the fastest manner possible because the ring size restricts the light braids ability to move around in all that extra space . With braid it works spectacularly well but with mono it does not .

With spinning , always choose guide type size and style based on what line type and strength (Diameter) you plan to use especially if you won't be changing line type and reels frequently . Spinning reel specifics like spool diameter and oscillation type are not nearly as relevant with braid 20 pounds and under but when you fish mono everything switches and reel specifics such as spool lip design , oscillation type and spool diameter become the # 1 determining factor in choosing the most proper guide type , design , height and ring diameter for ultimate performance .

Of course with light braid just about any guide choice and spacings will work exceptionally well even very poorly spaced guides and guide sizes will impress most fisherman. It is for this reason I always do my testing with braid heavier than I intend to fish with because it will reveal problems that 10 pound braid will not .

Enjoy

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Going with the Alps this time because my wife likes the bling factor from alps options to go with the metallic pink mhx blank. Your advice has been helpful.
Cheers Scott

I like Chrises thinking, but i go a little wackier..my butt guide is a #8YAG and then #5 or 41/2 LAG runners..you don,t need a reduction system for light braids..i set the butt guide about 13 or14" from the Shimano 1000 reel..i want to get the line up and close to the rod as soon as possible..it fishes like a bait casting rod and in fact the guide layout is good enough for a bait caster if you want..this is only for braid not any of the monos..

The Alps LF guides make a nice reduction train. I have used 20-12-8-6 followed with XP mini guides for runners.

Get the round ones.