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Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Derick Jahnke (---.ptld.qwest.net)
Date: January 08, 2021 11:46PM

Hi,
I'm working on a build for myself using a Black Hole Suzuki Special 10' blank and KR Concept layout using Pac Bay Minima high Frame guides.....I believe the reduction train is a 20 12 6H and 6 runners. I have 2 issues, 1 I think the last reduction guide isn't quite right....I can't get the bullseye with out some pretty ridiculous spacing between the second and third guide...maybe it is just the specs of these guides vs the fuji, never had this issue before. Note that the spacing currently in use are based off of the KR GPS numbers. And, following the specs giving on the GPS, I end up with my second reducer about 5 inches from the bottom of the tip section.
My questions are this.
Is the Bullseye pattern necessary to optimize performance in this system? And what can I do about the placement of a guide so far from the ferrule?

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Re: Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 09, 2021 08:40AM

Use Fuji guides and it will all work fine. If you cannot get a bullseye without also getting funny spacing then change the guide to one of the correct height.

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Re: Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Mark Hahn (---.166.213.151.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)
Date: January 09, 2021 09:21AM

Fuji

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Re: Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Derick Jahnke (---)
Date: January 09, 2021 12:22PM

Anyone have an idea on what the height difference is between a 12 h and 10h fuji guide? I'm thinking that using the 12 might be the cause of my issues.

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Re: Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: January 09, 2021 01:19PM

The 20H is always coupled with a 10H, and a 25H is coupled with a 12H. The third reduction guide is usually a 5.5M, but can also use a 6L or a 7L. There is no 6H KR reduction guide. The 10H is 30.2 mm high and the 12H is 31.8 mm high. Trying the right reduction group will probably solve your problem. I should mention this is for a Fuji KR setup, not a Minima set up.
[anglersresource.net]
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2021 01:21PM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Derick Jahnke (---)
Date: January 09, 2021 01:38PM

Norm,
I am using the Minima (M3's) I just didn't have the part # off the top of my head....I guess they would be the m3 20, 12, 6. I honestly tempted to swap these with thr M4's in 20 10 6. You think that the M3's would work if I changed either the first stripper to a 25 or the 12 to a 10?

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Re: Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 09, 2021 02:32PM

The guide heights for Fuji guides a are posted on their web site, and Pac Bay probably posts theirs too. So go to the web sites. No one is better than you to figure out how to accomplish what you are trying to accomplish.

Here is what I know: The Fuji system works using their guides and their KW software.

Here is what I think: Yes it is desirable to have the bullseye and when you deviate much from it the performance will likely go down. You should be able to select guide heights to allow this to happen without having strange spacing. Spacing outside the reduction train should be set by a stress test. Yes the size of the stripper is important, as is the height. A lot depends on the line you plan to use. With light braid almost anything will at least work. I personally don't go below 16 for the Fuji KLH., usually using the 20 just to give a little more versatility if I want to go up on line test. That's about all I can offer. It sounds like you are trying to use the Fuji system with Fuji software and Pac Bay guides, which leaves you pretty much on your own. Do the best you can and TEST CAST.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2021 03:26PM by Michael Danek.

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Re: Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: January 09, 2021 05:19PM

The PacBay M guides are pretty close in height to the Fuji KL-H guides and the KR GPS gives a pretty good starting point. The Minima 3s are a little different than the Minima 4s in terms of how the hard chrome ring is swagged into place in the frame. The Minima 4s are double swagged, the Minima 3s are tightly swagged on one side and lightly swagged on the other. As I was told by PacBay, this is done to protect the frame finish, since the finish for the Minima 3 frames are done before swagging, and the finish for the Minima 4 frames is applied after swagging. The regular titanium M guides are Minima 3s, the tiblack titanium M guides are Minima 4s. I tend to use Minima guides on UL to L rods sometimes M rods. For heavier rods I use the Fuji KR guides.
For a Minima reduction train use either 20M, 10M, and 6M, or 25M, 12M, and 6M reduction train. If you want to use runners smaller than the 6F you can use the 5M as the third reduction guide. You should be able to get a good bullseye with either reduction train. The length of your reduction train for a 10' rod should be about 30" plus or minus a few a few inches. If you need more specific help just contact me.
Norm

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Re: Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Derick Jahnke (---)
Date: January 09, 2021 05:41PM

I appreciate the explanation Norm. I found a set of CRB LZR guides in my stash that I will mock up...I've always done the KR Concept so these will be a bit of a challenge. If they work I'll stay with them. If not, I will put in an order for some KL-H guides (I've used them on other rods with great success) and return or repurpus these.

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Re: Help with KR concept Black Hole Suzuki Special
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.44.66.72.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: January 10, 2021 08:43PM


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