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What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Mo Yang (---)
Date: January 04, 2021 11:46AM

I have some guides in the TiCH finish. What exactly is TiCH again? Memory tells me that is Titanium Nitride equivalent which is very hard.


Thanks in advance for any help.

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---)
Date: January 04, 2021 12:41PM

Titanium Chrome.

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 04, 2021 01:35PM

From the Batson Enterprises guide ring section of their web site: PVD is a sophisticated process of vaporizing a solid material within a vacuum chamber. The vaporized material condenses onto a substrate and forms a complete and perfect coating. In general, most coatings produced by the PVD process are vey hard and offer superb density. PVD coatings also improve hardness, corrosion resistance, and the coefficient of friction. PVD is done at a low enough temperature to protect the integrity of the substrate material. Components that offer PVD are as follows: TiN Gold coating is Titanium Nitrate, TiN. PVD TiCh is the bright titanium chrome coating referred to as Titanium Hydrogenation. PVD TiO reffers to Blue Titanium Oxide. All three of these coatings are harder than the substrate they cover. They dramatically improve the smoothness, hardness, and the coefficient of friction. When PVD is used on a guide frame or ring it improves the durability and resistance to corrosion.

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Mo Yang (---)
Date: January 04, 2021 01:51PM

Thanks Spencer and Michael.

Michael, in case you are following, looking at the Minima guides listed on mudhole, I don't see TiCh listed. Which of their Minima guides use TiCH and how do they name the finish?

Thanks.

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 04, 2021 03:54PM

Mo, I think you will have to ask Pac Bay or Mudhole; I don't know if any of the finishes they offer on Minima is TiCh. I don't think they are since the PVD process is not mentioned, but I'm really not sure.

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Joe Vanfossen (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: January 05, 2021 09:22AM

I think TiGrey is PacBay’s Name for TiCH. I also don’t think I’ve ever seen Minimas offered in that finish.

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 05, 2021 09:54AM

I believe the Minima TiBlack is a PVD coating consisting of titanium carbide. It is used to coat both titanium and SS frames. You can get a variety of different colors depending on the type of evaporated metal and gases are used in the PVD process. In most cases, the PVD layer increases hardness, and corrosion resistance.
Norm

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 05, 2021 05:13PM

Sure would be good to hear from Pac Bay about now.

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Mo Yang (---)
Date: January 05, 2021 08:23PM

I have a number of the PacBay Minima in TiCH. When I ordered it some years back, they had that finish. It is a very dark metal gray - almost black. It was supposedly their hardest finish available but I had forgotten what the TiCH stood for - hence my question.

Thanks all.

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: david taylor (---)
Date: January 05, 2021 09:58PM

Jenn's site says, "Pacific Bay TiCh double foot fly rod snake guides are lightweight, flexible and strong. High, rounded arch design. Stainless steel wire is hard chrome plated then coated with titanium carbide for unmatched groove and corrosion resistance.

Thus I presume the TiCh in the name refers to titanium and chromium. So I would conclude that 1) body of the guide is stainless steel; 2) which is then chrome plated; and 3) through PVD (physical vapor deposition) is coated with Titanium Carbide.

Definitions from wikipedia:

Titanium carbide, TiC, is an extremely hard (Mohs 9–9.5) refractory ceramic material, similar to tungsten carbide. It has the appearance of black powder with the sodium chloride (face-centered cubic) crystal structure.

PVD. PVD is the abbreviation of Physical Vapor Deposition. It's a process to produce a metal vapor (Titanium, Chromium and Titanium Aluminum) that can be deposited on electrically conductive materials as a thin highly adhered pure metal or alloy coating.

Chrome plating (less commonly chromium plating), often referred to simply as chrome, is a technique of electroplating a thin layer of chromium onto a metal object. The chromed layer can be decorative, provide corrosion resistance, ease cleaning procedures, or increase surface hardness.

Basically it is a steel guide that is treated twice to increase hardness and also provide a dark coloring. I used the PacBay TiCh single foot guides in my last build of an Eternity2 fly rod, 9' 5wt, and I find them to be quite attractive. How much harder or resistant a TiCh guide is vs a stainless steel or chrome guide I cannot tell you. All steel and its many alloys are measured via various hardness scales (ratings). Moh's hardness scale measures various elements. This scale can be illustrated in this graph: [selectweddingrings.com] You can see on link's a Moh's chart indicating the hardness of a human fingernail, gold, steel, chrome, titanium and ceramic, diamond, etc. So the guide coatings due indeed make them harder, but how much that matters I do not know. There is also Moe's hardness scale, which measure the hardness of the Three Stooges heads.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/05/2021 10:05PM by david taylor.

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Dale Thompson (---)
Date: January 06, 2021 11:43AM

I worked in PVD (often called sputtering) research for nearly twenty years. A few random comments: TiN is used on watches, jewelry for a hard gold finish. Color and hardness depend on the conditions of the process (pressure, electrical bias, introduced gases, etc). Typically, the TiC, TiN, TiCh or other metal is a mixture, not a compound. There is usually no reaction of the metals during the deposition process. Chromium is often used as an adhesive layer prior to deposition of whatever metal, not to improve hardness, although that may be a side benefit. No matter how "hard" the final coating, it will not be harder than the substrate. It provides abrasion resistance. PVD can be done on nearly any solid substrate including plastics, acrylics, ceramics, metals, and on and on. The substrate does not need to be electrically conductive. One project we did was to make transparent, electrically conductive coatings on polycarbonate for aircraft canopies.

I have been retired (read old!) for a while now, so I may not be completely accurate in my comments

And now, back to fishing...

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Re: What is TiCH finish again?
Posted by: Mo Yang (---)
Date: January 08, 2021 02:36PM

Thanks all. Helpful. I got a nice stack of these and have not used them much so I was wondering.

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