Building an NFC MB705. Medium heavy fast action rod. The NFC guide spacing chart shows traditional and spiral wrap guide spacing. Can anyone point me to a good resource on how to set up a spiral wrap? I've never done it.

Few additional questions. Do I need special guides? I have a set of casting guides I was planning on using. Can you do this any on any rod? Thanks in advance. Gary.

If you do a search for spiral wrap for all dates on this forum, you will find gobs of reading material. There are all sorts of different techniques. They all work quite well.

When I built my first couple of rods, I received a ton of help from Steve Gardner when it came to layouts for those rods. His advice on the spiral wrap was straight forward. Place the guides where you normally would for a guides on top configuration. Then flip all but the two closest to the reel to the bottom of the rod. The butt guide goes on top and the second guide goes at 90 degrees. This would be a 90 degree transition spiral. Under deep load the 90 degree guide will carry some load and cause a little torque on the rod. It has worked out quite well, and those two rods are still my personal favorites and are still in that configuration.

You will read a lot about the Simple Spiral from Tom. It works similar to the technique above except all but the butt guide go to the bottom of the rod. You may add in bumper guide between the butt guide and next guide (spacing between them should be in the 8"-10" range) to keep the line from rubbing the blank. It should be a very low profile single foot fly guide or a double foot guide with the feet reshaped to bring the ring down to the blank. When loaded deeply, the line should be in the middle of the bumper guide and not carry a load, only keep the line off the blank. This is your best bet for reducing any torque on the rod.

The variation I use now is called a slow spiral. I place the guides in the same place I would for a guides on top build, but starting from the butt guide I'll sight down the rod and place the next guide so I just have a small opening visible between their rings and repeat the process until I get to 180 degrees. When using a double foot 6mm, single foot 5mm, and single foot 4mm guides to the tip it takes several guides to get there. I find the look aesthetically pleasing and the rods work well for me.

Other versions will involve making the transition using a few guides over a span of about 12" placed at different angles for the transition (I don't remember all of the names to give credit where credit is due). Some start with the butt guide on top, some offset the butt guide in the direction of the spiral, and some offset the butt guide in the opposite direction (a plus when using large reels without a level wind, as it will naturally pull the line part of the way back across the spool).

Thanks Joe. Can I use standard single foot casting guides that I have it do I need doesn't guides?

Yes, I use the same guides I would use for a traditional guides on top build. The guide choice is determined by the application, line size and type, and any knots that need to be passed.

Use exactly the same guides and spacing you would normally use. I like a three guide transition. Stripper on top, next at about 60 degrees the next about 120 degrees and the rest at 180 degrees. What you are looking for is a straight line from the stripper to the first 180 guide. Basically very simple to do. You can offset the stripper a few degrees to get a straight line, and this also helps in preventing any line build up on the reel. Some people like to spiral to the same side as the reel handle, which helps to get the guides off the boat deck when the rod is laid down. Others like to spiral the opposite way because it looks more balanced. Choice is yours. You can certainly tape the guides in place to try out other spiral configurations. This allows you to pick the one you like. Don't be afraid to experiment.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2020 10:28PM by Norman Miller.

Gary,
In the past there have even been 540 degree spiral rods made to test the extremes of the wrap, no appreciable ill effects were noted. You should be fine with any version you choose. I've used three versions over the years, all have been great.

Thanks guys. I started today. I chose the simple method to start out. Stripper in top and a bumper guide at 90 degrees. I'll call it before I epoxy it.

Gary, would you unhide your email address so I can send you an email? Or, send me an email. Thanks!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2020 08:53PM by Kent Griffith.

I got a feeling you'll be going with that once you cast it.

Kent. Sent you an email. Thanks.

Gary Goldsmith Wrote:
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> Thanks guys. I started today. I chose the simple
> method to start out. Stripper in top and a bumper
> guide at 90 degrees. I'll call it before I epoxy
> it.

Remember that on the Simple Spiral there are no transition guides. Put a guide at 0, then go directly to 180, and on out the rest of the way. Only after the spacing is set, would you return and install a bumper (rub prevention guide) at whatever location it's needed. Do not alter the rest of the spacing when you install such a guide. Many people perform a 90 degree transition spiral and think they are doing a Simple Spiral. They are not the same.

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Thanks Tom. I followed the NFC spacing guide. It didn't specify which method the spacing was for. I actually installed the second guide at 90 degrees. I static tested it and it looked good. No rubbing on the blank. I'm going to look at some other methods as well after dinner advice from Kent.

As a help to know if you have the Simple Spiral, your 0 and 180 degrees are not going to be more than about 8 to 10 inches apart. The 90 degree guide would be in-between those.

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Well I guess I don't really know what did then. There is 20 inches between the 0 and 180. The 90 degree is half way. This spacing was per NFC but the didn't specify which guides would be offset. The line doesn't touch the blank and it casts well.

You did a 90 degree transition spiral. There is nothing wrong with it. It works well and fishes well.

After reading my original post, I realized I wasn't clear on the spacing I mentioned. When I said 8"-10", that should have been between the butt guide and first 180 degree guide. The bumper goes in between those two guides.

Put another way: For the simple spiral, you can start with the NFC spacing, and take the second guide (currently your 90 degree guide and put it on the bottom with the rest of the guides). The bumper guide adds an extra guide to the layout and will be between your butt guide and second guide. The simple spiral effectively adds an extra guide to the guide train once the bumper is introduced. In this configuration, you have guides placed to properly carry the load, and add one whose sole job is to keep the line from rubbing the blank without carrying any of the load.

Thanks Joe. Just to clarify I'm ok as is? I've already finished the rod anyway so moving the guide is out. I laid the rod out per NFC spacing. But guide at 0. Second guide at 90 and the third guide at 180. That's a transition spiral?

Yes, a 90 degree transition it is.

Thanks Joe. I'll try the other methods next. Just glad I didn't screw mess this one up. I was going for simple in my first one.

So yeah, simple.

You missed it, but you may be happy with a 90 degree spiral as well.

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