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Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Larry Berkovsky (---.kngwcmtk03.res.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: February 06, 2020 09:03PM

Guys, looking for some feedback…..Been talking to a cousin of mine who, like me, is a long time fisherman on the Tx Gulf coast. We throw lots of the same plugs, plastic tails, spoons, etc. for trout and slot reds. I’m building my own baitcasting rods now and what I’ve really settled on for my own use are rods built on several blanks, MHX CB843, the Immortal P70M and the Elliott AP7 M-F and AP7 ML-F. Rods are all 7’ baitcasters, conventional (not spiral). Line is 30 or 50# braid w/ various Curados or Lews. Lure total wts 0.35 – 0.5 oz . He’d like me to build him a rod for this application but he wants to know how much more casting distance he’d get if we went with a 7’ 6” or 8’ or longer. He wants distance if available. Thinking out loud, we can probably get some distance but this probably comes with a tradeoff. So I’m going to do some looking at some blanks, starting with what I know and wondering if anyone would have any feedback on longer blanks and casting distances. And also any blank recommendations in the longer lengths if you have any. I think I might purchase a couple of 8’-ers and do some evaluation/testing at different rod seat positions because its something I’d like to know as well. Any thoughts? As always….thank you.

Berk

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: roger wilson (---)
Date: February 06, 2020 09:58PM

Larry ,
I believe that if everything else is equal, a longer rod has a potential to give longer casts.

However, one thing to bear in mind is the stiffness of the blank. If, for example you are using a blank that is a foot longer than another similar blank but the butt section is the same which results in a softer tip and mid section, then the extra length will likely not give you much extra distance.

Conversely, if one has a blank that has a heavier butt section with a more robust mid section to carry the working portion of the blank further up the rod, then with the stiff part of the rod being longer, it is quite likely that more energy will be conveyed into a cast with that longer stiffer rod.

Also, when doing anything with a rod where you want to get more distance, ALWAYS CAST with BOTH hands.

I see folks who complain about distance, but are only casting with one hand.

Another thing to get more distance, is to have yourself really get in shape with exercise, lifting weights doing resistance exercises so that you strengthen your arms, shoulders, back and legs. More muscle equates to the potential for inserting more energy into the rod, and thus the greater amount of energy flowing through the rod will continue on through the line and into the weight of the lure or jig. Hence, more distance.

Up north here the Musky fish is considered to be the fish of a 1,000 casts. i.e. 1,000 casts to hook into one Musky.

Yes, you better believe it that the really great Musky fisher folks - men or women - do get bulked up with good solid muscle to be able to handle these heavy long rods with these heavy weights and to be able to cast them for 10-15 hours a day on a great fishing day.

Best wishes.

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Jean Scurtu (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: February 06, 2020 10:05PM

I am fishing just with long spinning rods (10-16 ft..) using just artificial baits.With my telescopic rod built by me one telescopic blanc italia made i was able to catch on jig one 40 inch,23 lb. fishing with FIERLINE SMOKE 4 lb..+14 lb.flurocarbon leader at ROLOVER PASS ,BOLIVAR PENINSULA,TEXAS from the bank.
with one spinning rod built by me on ALL STAR AUSTIN (TITANIUM) fly blank w10 +extension HELIUM LTA (from KISTLER ),over 10 ft. with some australian braid 10 lb.+14 lb. fluorocarbon leader i was catching 2 big blakdrum ( C & R ) and many big specled trouts (the bighest 8.5 lb. ).I was changing myself some some fly rods ( SAGE,G.LOOMIS IMX W10,W12 ) in spinning rods over 10 ft..With all my spinning rods using braid (4 l. -10 lb.) i cn cast long distance without problem.
Fishing with siome spinning rods built by me on ALL STAR AUSTIN ( TITANIUM ) W4,W5 , over 11 ft.,fishing with FIRELINE 4 lb..+4 lb. fluorocarbon leader i sa catcjhin below LIVINGSTON DAM (on TRINITY RIVER,TEXAS ) fishing for white bass and crappie with jigs i was catching 2 flat head catfish,15 lb. each and 15 lb. buffalo carp, 15 lb.,15 lb.long nose gar fish(fault hooked ) and many big paddel fish (fault hooked,C & R ) with EAGLE CLAW jigs,1/16 oz.

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Jean Scurtu (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: February 06, 2020 10:09PM

In all my spinnig rods i was using just SIC MATCH long leg.This guides help for casting long distances !!

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Bill Brunstad (---)
Date: February 06, 2020 10:16PM

There's some truth to that. I fish mainly for muskies. For longer muskie fishing rods, I make a slightly longer handle to get more torque to load up a rod when casting, so you can get that distance with a longer rod. If you're casting and trying to hit a specific location next to a rock, between down trees, or a weed pocket, you're better off moving closer to get the precision you need to hit those spots. Giving everything you've got to reach those locations, will affect your accuracy. I really believe there are two more important advantages of a longer rod. One is for more flex and loading so your bait stays pinned when a fish jumps. The second and often discussed and written about is doing a better figure 8 at the end of your retrieve. For non-muskie people, this is a common maneuver that helps motivate following fish to strike at the boat and normally practiced at the end of every cast. Longer rod equals wider/better figure 8 turns and reduces the need to bend over to accomplish the maneuver. On a long day of fishing, that really helps reduce fatigue.

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 06, 2020 10:40PM

Assuming you can move the longer rod the same speed that you moved the shorter rod, you should get more casting distance.

............

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 01:12AM

Larry,
I have been building rods for the Texas Gulf Coast for more than 30 years. Back in the 90s I was using the G. Loomis IMX salmon / steelhead medium light, fast (by 90s standard) blank; I believe one of the blanks I used was a HS 9000-B or a 9003. These were blanks that were originally intended for spinning rods, but I was making casting rods with them because I liked the template or the mandrel that was used to make them. Very light and strong blanks even by today's standards. I was actually using spinning guides to get the line off the blank and keep the line straight starting with a 12 mm ring and going down to 6 mm, all single foot spinning guides on a 7’6” casting rod. This type of rod with a short wading handle and a Shimano Calcutta was casting 1/16 oz plastics to ¾ oz plugs with little backlash and at what I perceived as great distance. Much more than a spinning rod could do as far as distance. I think lengths of over 7’6” are better for heavier lures as would be a more medium or heavy powered blank. For me 7’6” is the point that after that it won’t do any better as far as casting in the range above and weight becomes a factor. A shorter handle set at 9” measured from the butt to the rear reel seat foothold is better for wading and any longer distance is better for off a boat or fishing from the bank. The rod you are talking about would be rated for 6-12 lbs line, medium light power and fast action. You should get a bit more distance with up to 7’6”. Look at the salmon / steelhead blanks and don’t worry about it being a spinning rod blank. If you make the handle longer you are actually making the rod shorter. The closest thing I have found compared to the old G Loomis blanks are Gary Loomis’s new company NFC. The IM steelhead / salmon blanks are very close. Using rapid reduction and micro guides you should be able to cast even farther. Guide sizes would start at like a RV 6mm, KB 5mm, (6) KB 4mm and (4) KT 4mm and 4.5mm or 5mm tip top. This would strictly be a lure rod and not heavy weighted live or dead baits.
Good Luck,
Lance

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dthn.centurylink.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 09:33AM

Tom, I'm going to risk putting words in your mouth...we often hear about the stiffness and lighter weight of high modulus blanks along with claims of longer casts. Your post helps me realize that a lighter, high-modulus, say, 7'6" blank is easier to move at a faster speed than a lower modulus, heavier blank of only 7'0". So while it is about "fulcrum" is it also as much about weight?

I understand modulus, weight and stiffness are not inextricably linked and there are a lot of factors involved, but generally, a longer (similar) blank will cast farther if it can be moved at equal speed... so weight becomes a key factor. Am I thinking straight?

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: February 07, 2020 10:01AM

Longer rods mean more guides, more guides mean more friction on the line, more friction means shorter casts. There's a break even point somewhere between leverage and friction.

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: ben belote (---.zoominternet.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 10:25AM

don,t longer rods mean more air drag when casting..sounds silly but it has to be a factor..how big a factor? i don,t know..

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Ron Schneider (---.mid.dyn.suddenlink.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 10:39AM

I have been using longer 8' + rods for years.
An example is a while ago I was cruising down the lake with a friend when a school of Hybrid Stripers exploded ahead of us.
I idled down and then quietly got as close as I dare so as not to put them down.
He had his trusty 7', I had my 8', both spin rods.
Casting the identical lures and lines, he was barely able to get to the edge of the school,
while I was getting about 30-40' farther and either into or just passed the melee.
After I had hooked up, he complained, so I moved the boat closer for him.
He caught one, I caught another, then the closeness of the boat put the school down.
I mention this because it has happened time after time, both on the lake and on the Trout waters.
The longer rod has helped me to make longer casts, cover more water,
and land big fish due to the forgiveness of the rod giving before snapping line or pulling the lure out.
If the blank is light enough, and a good quality Graphite, it should work well.
I always 2-hand cast any rod 7' or longer, usually a 9-10" rear grip behind the reel seat.
And, if you want longer but the blank is not available, try adding a foot to the back end of a 7'
I believe Tom did an article some years ago
about how doing that actually gives a little more power and slightly faster action.
One of my favorites is a Batson IP741 with a foot added, throws 3/8 - 1/2 oz lures like Redfins or Rapalas "a mile".
Popping blanks are my favorite any time we want a little more moderate tip action, but with good back-bone.
Here is a link;
[www.schneidersrods.com]
Hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
schndrod@suddenlink.net
870-424-3381

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 07, 2020 11:40AM

Yes you are thinking straight. I remember when the first graphite surf rods came out and people were getting more distance. They related it to the graphite itself, which wasn't quite the reason. Graphite isn't magical, but if you can move the same 12 foot graphite rod faster than the same glass 12 foot rod then it is possible to get more distance.

Length is an advantage, provided you can move it at the same speed as the shorter rod, or greater speed than the same length rod.

Jim Ising Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tom, I'm going to risk putting words in your
> mouth...we often hear about the stiffness and
> lighter weight of high modulus blanks along with
> claims of longer casts. Your post helps me realize
> that a lighter, high-modulus, say, 7'6" blank is
> easier to move at a faster speed than a lower
> modulus, heavier blank of only 7'0". So while it
> is about "fulcrum" is it also as much about
> weight?
>
> I understand modulus, weight and stiffness are not
> inextricably linked and there are a lot of factors
> involved, but generally, a longer (similar) blank
> will cast farther if it can be moved at equal
> speed... so weight becomes a key factor. Am I
> thinking straight?

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---)
Date: February 07, 2020 12:13PM

Longer rods do cast further. Modern high modulus graphite rods also allows for longer casts not only because it is lighter but also because of the way it stores and unloads energy during a cast. It also seems to me that high modulus rods are also able to cast a wider range of weights then listed. Finally, if you want longer casts, no matter the type of rod, use braid. The difference in distance is not trivial.
Norm

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dthn.centurylink.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 12:58PM

Thanks, Tom.


All about SPEED!!

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 07, 2020 04:02PM

Other factors as well, although many of them also result in greater response/speed, etc.

..........

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 06:00PM

I'd like to see the data that says more guides cost distance. More relative to what, too. While I don't have data, going from the usual recommended rod length +1 to a couple more with small guides on casting rods doesn't seem to cost distance. While there might be a little more friction, it also could be that those two extra guides on my rods are better utilizing the rod's power, and they do seem to cast farther than length + 1 rods.

I agree that generally longer rods cast farther. I used a RX8 Rainshadow Salmon blank to make an 8 foot casting rod and it outcasts anything else I have that's shorter. I built a 6 wt fly rod into a spin rod for bonefish jigs, and while it cast a mile (there's hard data for you :-) it did seem to cause less accuracy on short casts.

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Jean Scurtu (---.hsd1.tx.comcast.net)
Date: February 07, 2020 06:56PM

I built one spinning fishing rod over 10 ft. and i use just 6 SIC MATCH long leg guides on my rod work. The rod work very good and i cast long distance and i was catching many big fish ( speckled trout and black drum ) with out problems.

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 07, 2020 09:08PM

More guides only cause a loss of distance IF they add enough additional weight to decrease rod speed and recovery. Friction between line and guides is almost non-existent as there is little force pressuring the line against the guide rings. As with anything else, there will be a sweet spot where you have enough guides, but not too many.

.............

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: David Baylor (---)
Date: February 08, 2020 10:17AM

Correct me if my thinking is wrong here, but casting distance is related to rod tip speed. The reason a longer rod casts further, is because its tip moves faster. If you move a 6' rod from 90 - 0 degrees, its tip travels 9.42'. If you move a 7' rod from 90 - 0 degrees, its tip travels 11' in the same amount of time.

You don't actually have to move the rod faster, as the added length multiplies the speed of the tip.

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Re: Longer rods, longer casts?
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: February 08, 2020 11:13AM

But you're assuming that the angler can move the longer rod as fast as he can the shorter rod. At some point, he can't. Then the longer rod may actually result in less distance. That's why I said a longer rod may give you longer casts provided you can move it at the same speed as you do the shorter one. If you can, then the tip speed of the longer rod will be greater. It was the advent of graphite rods, owing to their lighter weight and slimmer profiles that allowed anglers to move to longer rods without any corresponding loss in ability to move the rod at the same speed.

...........

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