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Tip top tube sizing
Posted by: Ed Welch (151.111.143.---)
Date: August 28, 2019 05:30PM

Hi all,

I've been lurking here for a short while, gathering plenty of info on the A to Z's of rod building, as I just got a beginner's start-up tool/supply kit and I'm planning on getting my feet wet over the upcoming winter season. So far I have learned a ton, so thanks to all the experienced builders on here, as well as past newbies like myself that have already asked a majority of the questions that I have so that the experienced builders have already answered.

However, there's one question I'm not finding anything on despite trying various combinations of search terms, and that's in regards to tube sizing for tip tops. For most of my planned builds for summer fishing, I don't have any issue, as I know that I'll be able to find an appropriate tube size for the blank tip diameters that I'll eventually be building on. My first planned build is a little different though.

For my first build, I'm planning on building a rod for going after lake trout through the ice. As it will be an ice rod, I know that I want a larger ring size for my tip top and running guides (thinking size 8 ring), in order to reduce the icing up of the guides. For a lighter ice rod, I wouldn't mind using a wire-only tip top in order to get a larger guide with a smaller, appropriately sized tube. But, with lake trout, I want something with a ceramic insert, as I'll be fishing with fairly heavy braid, and they can go on some nasty runs.

The rest of the guides that I want to use for this build are CRB LZR guides. If I want to stick with a LZR tip top, but want a size 8 ring, I have to go to their medium duty tip top, which has a size 6 tube as the smallest tube. I actually like the idea of using the medium duty version, as the extra tang for wrapping the tip top would be nice for extra security. That being said, I know the tip diameters on the blank options I'm considering are smaller than a 6... Is that a problem? One blank I'm considering has a 3.5 tip size, would that be too big of a difference? Or since I'm planning on wrapping the tip top, is it okay to have a slightly oversized tube?

If having an oversized tube is ill-advised, it's not the biggest deal breaker for me. Other blanks I'm considering have size 4 and 5 tips, and I also have a good tip section of a 2 piece rod my dad broke that will work for this build and has a tip somewhere in that range most likely, so if I need proper matching tube size then I know I could go with something like the Fuji F tip top, and get it with a size 8 SiC ring with down to a size 4 tube. I'd just like to keep the guides all the same brand/finish for personal preferences, so if using the medium duty CRB LZR with a size 6 tube on a 3.5 size blank tip is okay, then that would be great.

Thanks in advance!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Tip top tube sizing
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: August 29, 2019 09:35AM

Ed,
If you can not get the right sized tip top for your rod blank - i.e. too large a tube size for the tip top, don't despair.

Just wrap the blank tip top with as many layers of thread as is necessary for a nice fit of the slightly oversized tip top.

I like the look of a thread wrap at the tip of the rod, so that if I have to slightly increase the size of the blanks tip to better accommodate the tip top tube, just increase the diameter of the tip in the area that the tip will be located.

I will often use a 1/2 or 3/4 inch tip wrap past the edge of the tip top. So, if I need say three layers of thread to increase the size, I will start with the first layer at the end of where I want the tip wrap to end. I will add as many layers on the tip of the rod, and then extend the wrap past the tips edge to make the thread tie off. The tie off with create a slight bump in the wrap, so I keep the bump past the tip top of the rod to not interfere with the fit of the tip top on the rod blank tip.

Good luck

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Tip top tube sizing
Posted by: Ed Welch (151.111.143.---)
Date: August 29, 2019 10:14AM

Thanks Roger, I was assuming it was probably okay, just wanted to make sure and also get input on how people deal with it.

Going off of your suggestion, once you have the tip wrapped to fit the tube better, do you still use tip adhesive on the part of the wrap that will be inside the tube, and does that penetrate the threads fine and secure it to the blank? Or do you do something like a light layer of finishing epoxy to the threads first and just use that as the tip adhesive?

Thanks again,

Ed

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Tip top tube sizing
Posted by: Dan Ertz (---.dsl.airstreamcomm.net)
Date: August 29, 2019 10:27AM

For ice rods I prefer wrapping a fly guide on for the tip guide instead of using a tip top with a tube, but both work fine and it's personal preference.

If the tube is too big, use thread and a coat of thread finish to build up the tip to fit the tube. A tip with a ceramic insert is going to be more prone to icing than a plain "wire type" guide so if you fish outside in very cold conditions you may want to go up a size or so bigger than an 8 SIC for the tip guide,

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Re: Tip top tube sizing
Posted by: Ed Welch (151.111.143.---)
Date: August 29, 2019 10:43AM

Thanks Dan.

On most ice rods I would agree with using a fly type guide, but with using braid and the ability of lake trout to go on some impressive runs, I definitely want to stick with a ceramic insert for this build. I do fish inside a popup shelter with a heater, so icing isn't usually a big deal. It's mostly the fact I've just had some 30 below days where my heater can't quite keep up and keep my shack above freezing, and I'll also fish outside on the other end of the spectrum when it's approaching 30 above but not quite there, so I'm thinking size 8 should do the trick. Might bump it to a size 10 Fuji F tip top with a 5.0 tube though now that I know it is easy enough to use a slightly larger tube size than the blank tip.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Tip top tube sizing
Posted by: Dan Ertz (---.dsl.airstreamcomm.net)
Date: August 29, 2019 01:36PM

Ed Welch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks Dan.
>
> On most ice rods I would agree with using a fly
> type guide, but with using braid and the ability
> of lake trout to go on some impressive runs, I
> definitely want to stick with a ceramic insert for
> this build. I do fish inside a popup shelter with
> a heater, so icing isn't usually a big deal. It's
> mostly the fact I've just had some 30 below days
> where my heater can't quite keep up and keep my
> shack above freezing, and I'll also fish outside
> on the other end of the spectrum when it's
> approaching 30 above but not quite there, so I'm
> thinking size 8 should do the trick. Might bump it
> to a size 10 Fuji F tip top with a 5.0 tube though
> now that I know it is easy enough to use a
> slightly larger tube size than the blank tip.

Ed,

My reply wasn't clear. I meant that as an alternative to the tube style tip top you could use a single foot fly guide with an SIC insert wrapped on for a tip top.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Tip top tube sizing
Posted by: Ed Welch (151.111.143.---)
Date: August 29, 2019 02:56PM

Dan Ertz Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ed Welch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Thanks Dan.
> >
> > On most ice rods I would agree with using a fly
> > type guide, but with using braid and the
> ability
> > of lake trout to go on some impressive runs, I
> > definitely want to stick with a ceramic insert
> for
> > this build. I do fish inside a popup shelter
> with
> > a heater, so icing isn't usually a big deal.
> It's
> > mostly the fact I've just had some 30 below
> days
> > where my heater can't quite keep up and keep my
> > shack above freezing, and I'll also fish
> outside
> > on the other end of the spectrum when it's
> > approaching 30 above but not quite there, so
> I'm
> > thinking size 8 should do the trick. Might bump
> it
> > to a size 10 Fuji F tip top with a 5.0 tube
> though
> > now that I know it is easy enough to use a
> > slightly larger tube size than the blank tip.
>
> Ed,
>
> My reply wasn't clear. I meant that as an
> alternative to the tube style tip top you could
> use a single foot fly guide with an SIC insert
> wrapped on for a tip top.

Ahhh, that makes more sense. I'll definitely consider that depending how I feel about using an oversized tube and how I can make it look. Thanks again!

Ed

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Re: Tip top tube sizing
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (72.239.229.---)
Date: August 31, 2019 03:26PM

I never use a ceramic tip-top insert on an ice fishing rod because I can't resit banging the tip-top against a hard object to clear the ice out of it. Ice fishers in room-temperature shantys don't face this problem. I would not worry about line groving the tip top since only a couple hundred yards of line go through it on a normal day on the ice. A chromed fly-rod tip-top should last you at least 40 winters, jigging or bait fishing, before any grooving problems arise.

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