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ERN and action angle
Posted by: Brian Gross (---.biz.spectrum.com)
Date: June 05, 2019 03:21PM

Being newer to this site and understanding technical terms, the post before this talks about ERN and Action angle and they relate to numbers. Is there a graph or video that explains what each is and maybe talks about them? Trying to learn as much as I can about this hobby as I love it.
PS Where does Norm get these numbers he talks about?

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Ron Weber (---.tc.ph.cox.net)
Date: June 05, 2019 03:39PM

Look over at the left under Common Cents Info

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: rick sodke (---.ok.shawcable.net)
Date: June 05, 2019 04:46PM

Likely he measured them.
There is a lot of talk about ERN and AA, but don't ignore CCF (Common Cents Frequency). It is the only dynamic portion of CCS and it defines how RESPONSIVE the blank is when using a specific fly line.

When you find a rod/line combination that fits your casting stroke and application you can reliably predict which line will "work" for you on any given blank.
It is unfortunate that most people don't measure and publish CCF.

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 05, 2019 05:53PM

Also keep in mind that ERN and action angle , as well as CCF, are valid for any blank. Not limited to fly, although that's where it all started. It is easy to take good data on CCS. You can substitute a pedestal with a tape measure attached to it for the 4 x 8 sheet of pegboard. You have to have a way to hold the butt of the blank/rod, but that's not insurmountable.

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 05, 2019 06:19PM

What Michael said is absolutely true. The CCS doesn't measure fly rod blanks, nor casting or spin blanks. It measures action, power and speed. Any blank that has those inherent properties can be used with the CCS.

.............

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 05, 2019 07:32PM

For the ERN and IP numbers I posted I measured them myself. Micheal had done the CCS measurements on his Loomis rod,. When I saw his data I knew right away it was similar to the Point Blank I mentioned. I also had measured the MHX and Immortal blanks previously. The MHX Blank is in the same ball park as the Loomis and Point Blank just a little bit more powerful but not by much. The Immortal Blank is much more powerful than the other three, but very similar to the RodGeeks B470MHF. The higher the ERN and/or the Intrinsic power (IP) the more powerful the blank. IP is defined as the weight required to bend the rod 1/3 its total length, and the Action angle (AA) is defined as the angle the tip makes when loaded to this 1/3 mark. The ERN is calculated from the IP. The higher the AA the faster the blank is. It is not that hard to do CCS measurements, and you can get some valuable information for comparing different blanks. There were a few manufacturers in the past that published CCS data on their blanks, they included North Fork Composites, Point Blank, PacBay Quickline models, and MHX for their fly rod blanks. I don’t think any manufacturer currently lists CCS data on their blanks on their web site, with the possible exception of MHX for some of their fly rods.
Norm

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 05, 2019 07:51PM

For clarity, "A distance equal to 1/3rd the blank's total length."

.............

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: June 05, 2019 09:13PM

If you use CCS data in matching fly line to fly rod you should actually weigh the first 30' of fly line. Depending on brand and model two fly lines of the same weight can vary in weight by as much as 20%. If you have a solid double haul, however, it will be much easier to accommodate different weight lines and different tapers used on the same rod.

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 05, 2019 09:42PM

Point Blank shows CCS data on their site. Click on the individual blank to see its specs, including CCS. At least it was that way recently.

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 05, 2019 10:18PM

For the Point Blanks, I don’t think it does that anymore. The old published numbers were copied and saved, so they are still available out there. Gib Portwood started an online excel spread sheet showing the CCS data for NFC, Point Blanks and PABay Quick lines. The spread sheet never went anywhere but it still out there. Also has a built in calculator for calculating ERN values from IP data. I gave this data to Seth Johnson when he started his data base. If you have CCS data on blanks please send it to Seth so it can be added to his data base
Norm
Here are the links
[www.obvibase.com]*

[onedrive.live.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2019 10:22PM by Norman Miller.

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 05, 2019 10:23PM

I’ll try one more time for Seth’s data base.
[www.obvibase.com]*

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 05, 2019 10:26PM

I guess the Seth’s link does not want to work. I have it book marked and it worked fine.
Oh well!
Norm

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: June 06, 2019 11:12AM

Links that previously worked but don't work anymore are commonplace all throughout the archives and is the norm on all types of forums unfortunately.

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 06, 2019 01:15PM

The link to the left in the sponsor column works fine. The database is access from the link at the top right of the main linked page.

..............

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 06, 2019 01:25PM

The link in Seth’s original post works just fine, hopefully.
[www.rodbuilding.org]
Norm

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: June 06, 2019 02:00PM

Links that are only two months old should always work , i would say most links that i have tried in the archives that are considerably older have a 15% chance of still working . Norms "One drive" link has no issues linking to Seth's database.

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 06, 2019 02:15PM

The one drive link is Gib Portwood’s link. He started to develop a CCS data a few years ago, but it really didn’t go any where but it does have the published CCS data for the few companies that did them. It also has a calculator for determining ERN from IP values and vice versa. Wish there was more CCS data on other blanks currently being sold.
Norm

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: June 06, 2019 02:36PM

Oh OK, didn't know that , i just clicked on the "Go to database" sign .

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.lightspeed.jcsnms.sbcglobal.net)
Date: June 06, 2019 06:14PM

Absolutely no problem, just wanted to make sure the proper people got the credit they deserve for all the hard work they put into these data bases.
Norm

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Re: ERN and action angle
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dthn.centurylink.net)
Date: June 07, 2019 10:15AM

Data is still available on POINT Blank. Drill down to :"hard specs".

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