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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: David Janes (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 17, 2019 06:36PM

Yes I did already buy it and it is the Saltist. The lip of the spool is 66.74...... mm. I went with the reel for several reasons. One I have reallly been liking Daiwas products lately. Two, I really like the feel of that reel, and I really like the colors of it, which is a little silly buy hey.

Now my question is do I still go with a size 30 guide or drop down to a 25, and go from there?

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 17, 2019 08:17PM

Perhaps a bigger question for you to be thinking about is......under wraps and double foot guides.....or no under wrap and single foot guides. The single foot guides will be strong enough for the fish but won't handle the same level of abuse (like getting stepped on). Under wraps add bling to the rod. Maybe you grew up thinking that is the proper way to build a blue water rod. I can't argue as that is how I "used" to feel, but then I used to help my dad wrap rods back in the 1960's. A lot has changed and if you want the best performance be prepared for your rods to look, well...ahem/cough/etc....wrong? incorrect? different? Just wait till you show up with an acid wrapped rod:) Sometimes it helps to know someones age/experience when trying to be of assistance. I hate to see landlocked guys telling someone how to build a rod for fishing situations they have never seen, fished, or dreamed of. Also think a phone call can be much better than trying to type on a forum.


PS, I'm a Daiwa fan but I think they really screwed up by not letting us purchase the mag-oil. It is widely known their customer service isn't too friendly so I hate being forced to send my reel back to their factory at least every five years (the oil has a limited lifespan). Just wanted you to know why I was trying to steer you towards a different reel choice.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 17, 2019 10:59PM

David you made an excellent choice, don't worry about Daiwa not offering the mag seal oil to the public , you will get many years out of that reel before you even need to send it back in for service . The fact is you like it and you own it now go out and enjoy it . Now , you never asked about spiral wrapped rods or whether underwraps are a good idea or not but if those things interest you say so , acid rod means spiral wrapped rod . Person who did a spiral early on was labeled as being on acid while he wrapped it thats where the term comes from .

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 17, 2019 11:51PM

Forgot to answer your question , yes, the KW 30 is still the best choice and thats based on two things , the biggest is your line choice which is 20 pound mono and the second is the spool diameter which is still considered on the large side . The only size 25 guide that is high enough to be considered is the RV 25 or the KL 25H with the RV being a double foot and part of the KR concept guide system and the KL 25H being the single foot 25 ring version of the KR system .

RV 25 is exceedingly expensive and gives little if any advantage on a rod like yours for the fishing you intend to use it for and i just do not like a size 25 ring in either the RV frame or KL frame even at heights that are appropriate because of # 1 , your specific reel with it's large spool diameter , #2 , the size coils of mono thrown off that spool and # 3 the short length of your rod and where the stripper would be positioned on it is too close for it to work well thats why a high frame KW 30 is the better choice.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: David Janes (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 18, 2019 09:59AM

When it comes to rod wraps I like clean few colors. I appreciate the work that people do and am even mesmerized by it at times, but I like clean simple. As for acid wraps it does nothing for me. I understand them but hey not my thing. It took me a long time to switch to braid for my inshore rods, I was am nostalgic about mono. But you can’t beat the casting distance of braid.

As of right now I am planning on using and under wrap with double foot guides, and only using three colors.

I really appreciate all your guys help and guidance.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 18, 2019 11:13AM

The gold standard of guides for that type of rod has been the MNSG for many years. If those are too much you can get them in alconite. Add a B for black guides (I buy the BMNAG). They range in size from 40 to 8. They work for spinning or casting rods. Three colors is all you need. I often use a gold metallic under wrap with black for the guide wraps and garnet for trim bands/inlays.

Decided on a blank yet? I like composite blanks for your propose.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 18, 2019 12:44PM

I eliminated the BMNAG and MNAG guides because their height for a 30 size ring is 11 mm lower than the KW 30 and with your specific reel especially using 20 pound mono the KW 30's height advantage especially for the stripper is clearly a better choice. On another note , look around the archives over the last 2 years about builds similar to yours & for your specific application , over 90% choose the KW frame over all the others despite the KW designs intent to eliminate line overshooting " Blow by" and line wrapping of the guide frame . If you would like to compare the KW 30 to the BMNAG or MNAG 30 on your rod order both rings ( $2.00 difference in price) and see for yourself.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: David Janes (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 18, 2019 12:47PM

The two blanks I lkie the most are about a $100.00 apart in price. Batsons Judge 7' and thenan MHX blank SW70M-MHX. I like the smaller diameter lighter blanks for the setup I mgoing for. And I know that im going with cork grips. I've always liked cork on my spinners.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 18, 2019 12:57PM

I based part of my recommendations on the blank length which will be 7 feet , i'm sure whatever blank you choose will be fine . I checked out "The Judge" at the expo , thats one blank that i really liked but its pricey .

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: David Janes (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 18, 2019 03:44PM

I'm thinking of going kw 30, 20, 16, 10, 8, and 8. and then tip top. Any thoughts on that. The previouse rods I have built were all kits so guides were already pre determined, so this is my first go with what I have learned so far.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 18, 2019 04:36PM

First thing is to get the blank and the reel seat and make a decision on where you want the reel seat positioned based on what you prefer and where it feels most comfortable . Position the reel seat on the bare blank and slide it in to a spot that feels right and temporarily tape it in place. Now mount the reel in the seat and determine where it feels best and where you want it positioned by moving it up and down accordingly.

Everyone will have a position that feels perfect to them based on how they intend to use the rod and personal preference . I don't like messing with guides until that stuff is figured out but what you listed above is A OK to experiment with , if you plan on doing what you're used to and using 100% mono then a 30,20,12,8 ,8 ,8 etc...is worth trying or what you suggested 30,20,16,10,8 and test cast to see what seems to work best . Never rush with this stuff , never skip over a step because it takes a little time to make sure everything is exactly how you want it .


I never make any definite decisions on guide sizes and placement UNTIL i have them in hand and start experimenting with the reel i plan on using spooled with the line i intend to use and attached to the rod, i always have the guide type and style figured out beforehand but not their exact positioning .

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 11:41AM

David, I kinda forgot that one of the rods was going to be for tarpon. Pretty much everything I said was aimed at a "pitch rod" for larger live baits. Pitch rods don't see a lot of use but can see some abuse so they need to be rugged. I'm poor so I wouldn't use a $200 blank for one. Take a look at the Rainshadow RCLB line.

Myself, I want the high dollar rod for when I need to feel every little nibble. Say a mutton snapper rod:)

Now if you don't troll and all your dolphin and sails are from running and gunning and sight casting live baits.....then heck yes get the judge.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: David Janes (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 06:30PM

I'm half tempted to buy one of ech and build them both out. It's a tough hobby with and endless limit of possabilities. I generally troll and have rods ready to cast live bait or plugs/bucktails. But this coming year I am planning on putting my boat in Marathon in dry storage for a month or two and go down for the spring run, which could mean much more run and gun. I'll keep you posted on what I do and how I like the end results.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: David Janes (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 07:10PM

That being said I'm always open to thoughts, suggestions, and input. Still learining and will take everything I can get. After this build light trolling/kite rods. Again 20# mono build.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 19, 2019 09:33PM

Just remember if you love the build i'll take the credit but if you come out utterly disgusted and disappointed and you're the type to seek revenge it's Russell's fault .

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: David Janes (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 20, 2019 06:20PM

I tend to troll far more then run and gun but might put the boat in Marathon next spring so that could change things. Most the time pitching baits is while trolling or bottom fishing when one seems to show up.

I’ve ordered one of each blank and will determine once I have them in hand how to move forward.

You two have been so helpful I really appreciate it.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: Russell Brunt (---.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net)
Date: May 20, 2019 10:35PM

Be nice Herb. I was recently run over by a drunk driver and I am in no condition to defend myself from any form of revenge.

David, if you click on my name you can send me an email. It would be easier for me to talk on the phone than try to type. At the end of the day you have maybe 6 companies in the USA that make blanks. Everything else is someone sticking their label on some other brand blank. Rather that matters or not is a topic worthy of discussion.

And then there is the matter of reels to consider. For the type of fishing you are interested in that may be a bigger factor. Not like you need to feel the bite when you are trolling.

I'm just as interested in what you have learned as anything I might have to share with you.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: May 21, 2019 12:51AM

"Be nice Herb. I was recently run over by a drunk driver and I am in no condition to defend myself from any form of revenge"



Thats a good point , i apologize , i was way out of line . David, disregard my comment on hunting down and brutalizing Russell if disappointed . I did hear about you being taken out while mowing the lawn , my God man is there anybody on the planet that has worse luck then you do , anyways wishing you nothing but health and happiness and to be able to continue to enjoy the sport you love so much and have contributed so much to in helping others.

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: David Janes (---.hsd1.fl.comcast.net)
Date: May 21, 2019 07:14PM

E-mail sent Herb

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Re: Kr or new concept heavy spinning rods
Posted by: Adam S McClain (---.bla2.nsw.optusnet.com.au)
Date: May 28, 2019 01:09AM

A 6500 saltist is a big reel for 20lb. I know your looking at max line capacity specially with mono but a 5000 would be excellent

Like Herb suggested a topshot would be perfect. 5000 size is one of my favourite reels. The 5000 saltist holds 400m (480yrd) of 40LB PE4 braid. If you hunt around there is some very thin braid with high breaking strain where you could easily get 500m plus of 40lb.

With the new IGFA rules on braid backing a lot of game fishos are swapping over to braid with a top shot. Seems to be the go. I haven't yet as I only respooled my tiagras just before this happened...

What blanks are you looking at? A blank with a softer action would compensate for the use of braid.

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