Herb,
Thank you for the informative, if not mildly disappointing but honest reply concerning Crystal Coat. I am anxious to learn of any updates. I am quite certain you mixed according to the directions.
Norman has a valid suggestion in trying the (different) weight ratio he was provided and his calculated volume ratio as well. With CTS supplying different ratios, we really do not have an accurate baseline as to what the correct ratio is for Crystal Coat. Additionally compounding the ratio baseline is the fact Crystal Coat has a different ratio from other thread finish, structural epoxy or any other epoxy I can think of.
Hopefully the solution is as simple as Tom’s observation of the possibility others mixing it 1 to 1 to which they are accustom with other thread finishes. A ratio that shy on hardener from any of the prescribed ratios would certainly cause the present issue. That would certainly be a quick and easy fix!

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Hello Mark.

1 to1 is more hardener not less than 3 (Resin) to 2 (Hardener) or even 2.5 (Hardener) as Norman said, and that should make it harden faster and if the percentage is off enough it should make it brittle with time.


Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

That’s fine fellows keep on using what you are using. As I mentioned before, if you likeit, use it. I know a lot of people don’t like to experiment or try different things and that’s fine, but I do, This product is quite different from any other finish I have ever used and is certainly worth trying if you want a colorless, smooth and glass-like finish. I think this product will remain water clear for a long time, based upon the fact that unlike all other epoxy hardeners, without exception, the Crystal Coat Hardener is absolutely colorless from the day i got it to now. I don’t think you can say this about the epoxies you are currently using, because it does not exist. You don’t have to wait two seasons to see yellowing with all other epoxy finishes, it there from day one. it just gets darker with time. As I mentioned before, I did not start this post to sell Crystal Coat but rather to inform interested folks that there is a new and possibly unique product on the market. With all due respect, If you are not interested that’s fine and you can stop reading and trying to dissuade others from trying to satisfy their curiosity..
Norm
Ps this was a response to BB and HC. Not to the other posters that posted while I was writing. Thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/01/2019 04:24PM by Norman Miller.

With most of the common epoxy finishes that we use, adding too much Hardner results in a mix that never Fully hardens. It remains tacky forever. I do not know if this new product from CTS behaves the same way or not.

.......

Robert,
The ratios are listed with the resin first and the hardener second. So, (1 to 1) would be one part resin and one part hardener which would be exactly the same as (3 to 3) three parts resin and three parts hardener. A (3 to 2) three parts resin and two parts hardener has LESS hardener than the (3 to 3) or (1 to 1) ratios! Make sense?

Mark Talmo
FISHING IS NOT AN ESCAPE FROM LIFE BUT RATHER A DEEPER IMMERSION INTO IT!!! BUILDING YOUR OWN SIMPLY ENHANCES THE EXPERIENCE.

Hello All.

I stand corrected.

Have a good day.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Robert is correct a 1R1H volume to volume ratio would be heavy on the Hardener side. The CTS volume to volume ratio of 3R:2H would be heavy on the Resin side and would result in a softer finish. This is based on my weight to volume measurements given above in the initial post. I know my volume to volume ratio of 3R:2.5H works because I used it and got excellent results. My weight to volume measurements showed that the Resin weighs 10% more than the Hardener per unit volume. You can check my calculation based on my measurements and see that the CTS 4R: 3H weight to weight ratio is equivalent to my volume to volume ratio of 3R:2.5H, but is not equivalent to the CTS volume to volume ratio of 3R:2H. I trust my measurements because they worked.

Norm

Norman,
Thank you for waking me up. It is my turn to stand corrected and Robert needn’t. My persuadesivness is over countered by my embarrassment. Indeed, a (1 to 1) ratio is heavier on the hardener verses a (3 to 2) ratio!!! All I had to do was look at my own numbers.
Assuming that adding additional hardener to epoxy will speed-up curing time or produce a harder, more brittle cured product may not be correct; possibly but not certainly. Such may be the case for polyester (FG) resin where increasing or decreasing the amount of hardener (within limits) will change the cure rate by design. Epoxy is different and dependent upon very precise mix ratios, some more tolerant than others. In our Crystal Coat instance, it is possible excessive hardener could through everything out of whack to hinder proper curing. While I am not saying that is the situation here, it may be. I agree with Robert; we all miss Ralph.

I mixed mine to exact CTS specs using a digital scale - as did my customers.
Gayleen Pratt leaves her rods rotating overnight in the dryer.
The temperature is unknown to me.
After seeing this thread I emailed her for update.
Herb

Norman Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That’s fine fellows keep on using what you are
> using. As I mentioned before, if you likeit, use
> it. I know a lot of people don’t like to
> experiment or try different things and that’s
> fine, but I do, This product is quite different
> from any other finish I have ever used and is
> certainly worth trying if you want a colorless,
> smooth and glass-like finish. I think this
> product will remain water clear for a long time,
> based upon the fact that unlike all other epoxy
> hardeners, without exception, the Crystal Coat
> Hardener is absolutely colorless from the day i
> got it to now. I don’t think you can say this
> about the epoxies you are currently using, because
> it does not exist. You don’t have to wait two
> seasons to see yellowing with all other epoxy
> finishes, it there from day one. it just gets
> darker with time. As I mentioned before, I did not
> start this post to sell Crystal Coat but rather to
> inform interested folks that there is a new and
> possibly unique product on the market. With all
> due respect, If you are not interested that’s
> fine and you can stop reading and trying to
> dissuade others from trying to satisfy their
> curiosity..
> Norm
> Ps this was a response to BB and HC. Not to the
> other posters that posted while I was writing.
> Thanks



I thought this nonsense was over with but apparently not . Norm , there is no need to call people out because their opinions are different than yours and nobody is trying to sabotage your take on Crystal Coat and hoping people stay away.

I'm very curious about it and may end up trying it out but is it really that forgiving of mixing errors , i have serious doubts but some claim it is forgiving so comparing it to a stellar product like Threadmaster which is exceptionally forgiving would really be helpful . We have two very experienced builders, yourself and Herb L and both of you seem to to have very very different viewpoints and experiences with the product .

Again , nobody is against anyone else, lots of love all over the place but lets not forget , we're talking fishing stuff here and when it comes to fishing stuff many of us do consider this life and death . Perfectly normal and healthy behavior by the way

I was not calling you out Herb, I was just trying to let you that you are very welcome to your opinion, and I respect that. It came across to me that you were clearly happy with the ThreadMaster you now use, and because of this you were not interested in trying this new product. I just wanted people to keep an open mind and not be dissuaded from trying it. If you took it as offensive I sincerely apologize, and hope you keep stating your opinions.

If you have read my posts you should know that my preferred finish, like yours, is ThreadMaster and have used it for years, basically because it has a fast cure rate and does what I want it to do. However, Crystal Coat is the only finish I have ever seen or used that has absolutely no yellowing in the Hardener. I have used most of the epoxy finishes out there, because I like to try things, and without a doubt it is the only one that has a water clear Hardener. As I mentioned above, the long cure rate is sort of a turnoff for me, so I probably won’t use it as my everyday finish when I’m in a rush. However, I will certainly use it for certain builds that would benefit from a water clear, non-yellowing finish. The results may certainly be worth waiting for.

I should mention, that I just mixed up two new batches of Crystal Coat, one with the CTS 3 R: 2H volume to volume ratio, and my 3R : 2.5H volume to volume ratio. I mixed both very well and left in the aluminum mixing pans to cure. I will report back which one gives the best results. My weight to volume measurements were repeated, and I got the same result, 3 ml of R weighed 3.3 gm and 2.5 ml of H weighed 2.5 gm for a very close 4R: 3H weight to weight ratio. Just wanted to double check my previous numbers.
Norm

what,s interesting about slow cure finishes is that you can do two or three rods in a row or maybe one rod, put the epoxy in the fridge and put a second coat on the next day with the same epoxy or even a third coat the next day again..you would have to mix a larger batch but then a larger batch is less likely to be off mix ratios..

The amount of rod finish i went through just to make 4 rods was truly mind boggling , i'm talking five full 4 ounce kits and two 8 oz kits of Threadmaster . I just kept starting over when i couldn't get it to work the way i had expected , i would love to have a finish that leveled perfectly and where tiny bubbles were a non issue . Since i live Murphy's Law as everybody knows this Crystal Coat came out AFTER i already completed all the rods i had intended to build and AFTER i had already ordered 4 CTS blanks from Herb L thereby excluding me from the sample offer . Maybe i can beg Stephen for a CTS ball cap , No ..OK how about a CTS coffee mug .....


I wouldn't care about the long cure time at all IF the finish was easier to apply, leveled great and required less supervision while curing and this Crystal coat sounds like a win win in that regard , the fact that there is zero yellowing of the resin or hardener is something that is virtually unheard of so it will be interesting to hear what Gayleen has to say about it when she gets back to Herb L .

IF I can transfer the I took of the CTS instx - I will post it on RB.org.
I am on Cape Cod with my old computer and the pic is on my phone.
Herb

A picture of the CTS Crystal Coat is now in the photo site under Guide Wraps.
Herb

Sorry - I can't seem to attach a link



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2019 11:05AM by Herb Ladenheim.

I think this is the link Herb wanted to post.
[ctsfishing.com]
Click on the specification tab to get more information.
Norm

Checked this morning on the two mix ratios I did last night, my 3R:2.5H and CTS’s 3R:2H . Surprisingly both were set and tack free but still on the soft side. The room temperature was in the 70s. If one wanted to recoat they could do so with no problem. What was really surprising was both mix ratios cured quite well. How’s that for being tolerant to mixing inaccuracies! Both of the mix containers where crystal clear and bubble free, and I made no attempt to remove bubbles from the mix. I like Ben’s suggestion of of taking the unused mix, placing it in the refrigerator , and using it the next day for a second coat, if necessary. Wow, this stuff is looking better and better. Will post a little later on the conditions of both mixes.
Norm

Norm
No - i wanted To attachement à link to the RB
org photo i posted

Store in freezer for next day.
Do tha for any epoxy
Herb

Sorry Herb, I thought it was a picture of the Crystal Coat instructions, which be part of the CTS link I posted.
Norm