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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: Rodgeeks Rod Blanks (---.nys.biz.rr.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 12:14PM

Tom gives the best advice here: email or call us with questions. info@rodgeeks.com

Herb, just to make sure we are on the same page, the blanks in the Bass 2 and Bass 4 Series are the ones with slightly slower designs. Blanks in the Carbon 2 Series and Carbon 4 Series are NOT slower. They are the same as St. Croix SCII and SCIV blanks. The vast majority of blanks in all the other series are also exactly the same designs as their St. Croix counterparts. But again, contact us for confirmation if you have questions.

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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 12:16PM

Thank you , appreciate it.

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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 12:40PM

I went over the descriptions in the Bass series in carbon II and carbon IV and it says the actions are slightly slower to accommodate braided line , this must be code for ( We know bass anglers abuse rods & tend to break them ) so we're forced to make them a little more durable. I understand that way of thinking completely i just hope RodGeeks leaves the other rod series they offer alone even though we all know most will be using braid on them . Most of us know how to set and utilize the drag, pro bass anglers not so much , they believe in the "Must use overwhelming force even though overwhelming force is not necessary to land fish " mindset , due to time constraints .

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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: March 12, 2019 08:22PM

Herb, in reference to your latest post, it is not that at all. The slower actions with braided line in mind are meant to help anglers land fish with a line that can and does go slack in fractions of a second. The slower actions recover slower thereby keeping tension on the line. It's no different than slower actions being better at keeping fish hooked on treble hooked lures from shaking the hook.

Certainly you've had to break off a hung up bait tied to a nylon mono filament line and one tied to a braided line. Depending on how much line you have out, breaking off or trying to break off a bait on a nylon mono filament line can be dangerous. The line stretches and when it breaks, it comes back at you. I've had bullet weights come flying back and go through a rain suit and a pair of jeans and break the skin on my thigh. I've also had line that broke put some pretty good cuts on my fingers when it recoiled back.

As far as most will be using braid, I guess that's true to some extent. There are a lot of guys that absolutely love braided line. Myself, I only love it for very specific situations. Otherwise I will do without it because I believe it's no stretch factor will cost an angler fish unless they are using rods with slower actions.

And....... what's a drag? LOL Seriously though, myself as a tournament bass angler (not a pro) I never ever want my drag to slip on a hook set. Part of the hook set, especially in heavy cover, is to move the fish. You don't move the fish, you lessen your chance of getting it out of the cover. Also, if you don't move the bait in the fishes mouth, you're not moving the hook. Largemouth bass and to even a higher degree, smallmouth bass, can seriously chomp down on a bait. When LM suck in a bait they aren't swallowing it instantly, they're crushing it inside their mouths to kill it before swallowing it. That is especially true with smallmouth bass that are feeding on crayfish.

I have absolutely powered fish on the hook set only to have them on for a split second and then they're gone. And I can say with quite a bit of certainty, that it isn't because I tore a big hole in their mouth which allowed them to get off. It's been because they clamped down so hard on the bait that I didn't move the hook. I've had bullet weights with big scratches in their powder paint finishes that resulted from pulling the weight through the teeth on their lips. That right there goes to show how hard they clamp down. And finally, you're right about the overwhelming force thing ..... sometimes. There are times to play fish, and there are times to get them in the boat ASAP. There are times to back off on the drag, and there are times when you don't.

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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: March 12, 2019 08:39PM

Don't confuse action with speed. They are two entirely different things. Action is where the blank initially flexes. Speed is how fast it reacts and recovers.


........

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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 09:04PM

Good response David. You set the hook, feels heavy, next thing nothing. Clamped down on it, spit it out. It's said, if you feel anything set the hook the second thing you feel is when they spit it.

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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 12, 2019 11:46PM

David Baylor:


"Herb, in reference to your latest post, it is not that at all. The slower actions with braided line in mind are meant to help anglers land fish with a line that can and does go slack in fractions of a second. The slower actions recover slower thereby keeping tension on the line. It's no different than slower actions being better at keeping fish hooked on treble hooked lures from shaking the hook"






I believe what i said is quite accurate actually but i also agree with many of your points as well . I would be curious to see what the CCS numbers show between these high end bass blanks , what i have found is that around 97% of top notch bass blanks from the likes of Batson and others are all made with their highest modulus material and listed as X FAST and FAST actions .




Comments from a world renowned pro bass angler making it a no brainer on what line to choose lol.


“Braid doesn’t have any stretch, which transfers the energy of my hookset directly to the fish, allowing me to get a solid hookup before the bass spits the bait, in addition to helping your hookup ratio and presentation, monofilament on the other hand acts as a shock absorber, the split-second delay that mono gives you allows the bass to eat the entire bait, therefore also helping your hookup ratio"


Lynns comment about instantaneous hook sets as soon as you feel the slightest bump is dead on accurate , easier said then done though .

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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: March 13, 2019 04:28PM

Tom, you're absolutely right. I used the wrong terminology. My meaning was that more of the blank flexes with slower actions, and that helps keep tension on the line.

And Herb, I love this kind of conversation as much or more than conversations about certain aspects of rod building. I certainly can't disagree with your break down of the percentage of fast and extra fast action blanks, versus moderate fast, moderate, and so on. Although I will say that it depends on the manufacturer and what the blank is designed for. For example, all of NFCs flipping blanks (HM, IM, and SM) are moderate or moderate fast actions. And there are a few others with a mix of fast, mod fast, or moderate actions in their line of flipping blanks. Crankbait blanks, pretty much all of them are mod fast, or fast.

Of course none of this was the case in days gone by. Flipping sticks were pool cues that even though people were using this new magical nylon mono filament line that stretched to god knows where, because of the rod's stiffness, lost fish. The same with crankbaits. "Plugs" have been around forever, yet it hasn't been all that long that moderate fast and moderate action rods are now the accepted norm for those types of baits.

As far as it being a no brainer on which type of line to choose, despite what the world renowned pro bass angler says, it is not a no brainer. Braid certainly has advantages, but it's not the be all and end all of lines. Far from it. Love the conversation though.

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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: herb canter (---.atmc.net)
Date: March 13, 2019 05:15PM

The "No brainer" comment was "Sarcasm" on my part meant to show how confusing that bass anglers comments could be to a newbie, the comment made braid and mono both seem like the way to go for increased hookup ratio's lol.


First line : "Braid allows me to get a solid hookup before the bass spits the bait helping your hookup ratio and presentation"

Second line: "Monofilament on the other hand acts as a shock absorber, the split-second delay that mono gives you allows the bass to eat the entire bait, therefore also helping your hookup ratio"

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Re: St. Croix = Rodgeeks . Clarity wanted.
Posted by: David Baylor (---.neo.res.rr.com)
Date: March 13, 2019 07:16PM

lol Herb, I was thinking the same thing. Good stuff lol

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