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KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Jonathan Taylor (---.bulloch.net)
Date: December 31, 2018 11:55AM

I'm trying to layout the guide train for a KR Concept casting rod. The blank is a NFC MB 665-1 HM and the guides I'm using are RV6 - KW5.5 - KB4 - KB4 - KT4 the rest of the way. I would like to use a spiral 0-60-120-180 layout. Is there a standard distance for the RV6 butt guide? The other guides I placed by trying to get the straightest line path and static testing? I'm new to all this but the biggest question I had was the butt guide distance. Thanks in advance!

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (172.58.45.---)
Date: December 31, 2018 04:06PM

There is no mythical perfect distance for the guide or spiral wrap. I use 16 inched from reel's level wind guide on pretty much everything unless the rod's design style, or test casting tells me I'm off.

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Lynn Behler (---.97.252.156.res-cmts.leh.ptd.net)
Date: December 31, 2018 04:07PM

20-23" in front of the reel guide. I usually put it at 22. Do a search of all dates for other opinions.

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Michael Tarr (143.59.156.---)
Date: January 01, 2019 09:10AM

I’ve been tweeting a spiral wrap NFC Delta 706 rod and the last guide is set around 20”. I taped the guides in place and did some test casting to make sure I like the placement. I also started with the 0-60-120-180 but ended up going with 18-68-128-180. I was getting better distance with less effort on each cast. Looking at the line going through the butt guide it isn’t constantly rubbing the ring at 18 like it was at 0... less friction to slow down the cast. And, I don’t mind the guide being slightly off center.

I have many high dollar factory rods and they seem to range from 19 to 23”.


Hope this helps!

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 01, 2019 09:20AM

Do participants in distance-casting contests use spiral-wrapped guides in either conventional or spin-casting contests?

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: January 01, 2019 01:48PM

My educated guess would be NO.

When you look at the concept of a spiral wrapped rod; the spiral wrapping of the guides on a rod do 0 for casting and in a few to many cases, detract from the casting ability of a rod.

After all, you are looking at a line coming off of the top of the rod with a casting reel.

A set of conventional casting guides sit on top of the rod and if set up correctly to optimize casting distance, the line will not ever touch a guide - so to speak as the line shoots off of the line. i.e. essentially 0 drag of any sort on the line.

Conversely, with a spiral wrapped rod, the line has to get around the rod, and the getting the line around the rod - no matter how it is done will result is some friction on the line somewhere.

This line friction - simply has to reduce the casting distance of a rod, reel and line.

Good luck

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 01, 2019 09:54PM

I'm with Roger. In theory he is right, and there is no practical aspect of the casting that would compromise the theory. I have read that a spiral wrapped rod can result in the line going straight from the reel to the tiptop, but I've never been able to make that happen.. My simple spiral rods cast well, so I expect from a fisherman's perspective , there isn't a perceivable difference . But for the ultimate in casting distance, I don't see how spiral can be anything but a slight disadvantage.

If "spin-cast" means a reel beneath the rod then there is no reason to even consider spiral. If it means a "Zebco 33" above the rod, then the comments above are appropriate.

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: January 01, 2019 09:54PM

I'm with Roger. In theory he is right, and there is no practical aspect of the casting that would compromise the theory. I have read that a spiral wrapped rod can result in the line going straight from the reel to the tiptop, but I've never been able to make that happen.. My simple spiral rods cast well, so I expect from a fisherman's perspective , there isn't a perceivable difference . But for the ultimate in casting distance, I don't see how spiral can be anything but a slight disadvantage.

If "spin-cast" means a reel beneath the rod then there is no reason to even consider spiral. If it means a "Zebco 33" above the rod, then the comments above are appropriate.

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Lance Schreckenbach (---.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net)
Date: January 03, 2019 08:31PM

First this is your rod and you can build it anyway you want, I am just making suggestions and have been making spiral wrapped rods like this for a little over 5 years, with a lot of trial and error. This is how I do them now:

The stripper guide (butt guide) should be about 20" to 21" from the face of the reel mounted on the reel seat. On a rod that length (6'6") I would use 8 micro guides and a tip top. Fuji guides RV6 (stripper), KB5 or KB4 (only use the larger guide if you need clearance) I would mount the first running guide that is closest to the tip top at 3.125” to 3.25”. This is not necessary to do at this point but this measurement is important to the spacing because this is going to be least amount of distance between two guides with the stripper guide (RV6) and the next guide (KB5) having the greatest distance. Go ahead and put your reel seat and grip(s) on the blank permanently (I am guessing a wading rod, so a short handle) You will need to mount the reel and tape the stripper on the blank at 0°, mark the major bend of the rod bent at 90 degrees. Run your line from the reel through the stripper and tape it just behind or at the major bend of the blank at 180° (tape to bottom of blank). Try to keep the line going through the stripper ring in the center or just at the top of the guide ring. Tape the next running guides at around 60° and 120° following the line. Depending on your spacing it may not be exactly at 60° and 120°. The object is to keep the line as straight as possible from reel through stripper to the 1st bottom 180° running guide. This is how I do it. You can use any graduated spacing you want as long as you adhere to the 1st running guide and the stripper placement on the blank.

I once had the notion that a conventional casting rod would perform better than a spiral wrap but because of using micro guides I have found they cast better than micro guides mounted on the top of the blank. In order to keep the line off the blank you have to use more guides (more weight) on top than on bottom. The thing that causes the most friction on the line is the line touching the blank. The spiral wrapped rod, if done properly, will not let the line touch the blank even under load. A conventional casting rod made the old-fashioned way; with 1 guide per foot and large guides, will allow a wave in the line that contacts the blank when casting (will slow the line down) and when under load will put the line below the blank causing more resistance when retrieving. You most likely are not going to get any more distance in the cast as compared to a conventional wrapped micro guide rod (equal) with more guides on top but, you are going to have a better performing rod.

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Jonathan Taylor (---.bulloch.net)
Date: January 09, 2019 09:29AM

Thanks for the help! What is the reason to have the guide closest to the tip top at that dimension instead of placing it by static testing? Trying to learn.

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Re: KR Concept Questions
Posted by: Phil Ewanicki (---.res.spectrum.com)
Date: January 10, 2019 12:24PM

Do different brands or models of guides with the same size apertures require different spacing if they are used on the same blank? If so, why?

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