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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.drr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 09, 2018 03:25PM

Regarding GPS, I tried a Stradic 3000 with KLH guides in it and got a reasonable solution, right about what I would have done. When I entered the Stradic 4000FG I got a 20 at 11.6, a 10 at 17.1, and a 5.5 at 21.8. This is what I remembered when I mentioned the strange solutions above.

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.gtcom.net)
Date: September 09, 2018 08:09PM

That is strange, which GPS did you use?
Norm

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.98.---)
Date: September 09, 2018 10:23PM

Yeah thats not right at all despite not knowing the rod length . The 20 stripper should be in the 20" range with the second reduction guide in a lot closer to the 20 more like 8 or 9" at least according to both of my KR concept builds.


I used the one below as i believe most do .

[anglersresource.net]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2018 10:30PM by herb canter.

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 10, 2018 04:58PM

Norm, I used the KLH for guide selection, Stradic 4000FG for the reel selection. Try it; see what you get. Herb, rod length has nothing to do with it, right? There is no input for rod length in the KLH/Stradic GPS calculation that I could see. The Stradic 3000 gave 21 inches + for the 20, Herb.

Here goes heresy: I think for normal fast action freshwater rods one can take the KLH 20-10-5.5, space them to get a reasonable (yeah, I know, what's reasonable, but we all do it all the time) distance between and so they give a bullseye , and write that down and use it on almost all your rod builds. When testing to get the best performance, move the whole set up and down a couple inches from a start of 20 inches and place your other guides according to a stress test.

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.110.---)
Date: September 10, 2018 06:17PM

Herb, There is no input for rod length in the KLH/Stradic GPS calculation that I could see. The Stradic 3000 gave 21 inches +






Mike , the very first question on the KR GPS ask's you what the total rod length in inches is . The KR concept is about rapidly choking the line down as fast as possible so it's important to keep the stripper closer than normal to the reel , the height of the guide makes this possible . Fuji's recommendations will not only space the reduction train close together for the rapid choking to take place but it will also form that bullseye . I'm sure you can spread the KL-H guides out more to form a bullseye but thats NOT what the KR concept is about .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 06:31PM by herb canter.

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.gtcom.net)
Date: September 10, 2018 07:51PM

You were using the NGC GPS , and it does gives some really funky results when you input KLH guides. Jim Ising told once me not to use the NGC GPS when making a KR rod; not compatible. The KR GPS asks for rod length because it does increase the reduction train length on longer rods. It calculates the distance from the stripper to the tip top and places the choke guide from the stripper at a distance approximately equal to 0.42 X the distance from the stripper to the tip top. Check it out by inputting different rod lengths but keeping everything else the same. You can get very good results by placing the choke guide at the same distance from the stripper as the stripper is from the reel spool. This is basically what Micheal is doing by keeping his reduction train the same and just moving the whole thing up or down a little. So there are a couple of ways to setup a KR guide layout and still get excellent results. By increasing the distance of the reduction train with increasing rod length the KR GPS will require fewer runners overall then if you kept the reduction train constant. I have tried both type of set ups and they both work very well.
Norm



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2018 07:53PM by Norman Miller.

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 10, 2018 09:07PM

There is a big problem with the Anglers Resource site. When I go to the Anglers Resource site I see links across the top, one of which is GPS software. I click on GPS and there is no reference to NGC. So I go through the calculations with reel model, then guide package (SPECIFICALLY KLH, which is the guide train I'm trying to calculate), then click on calculate, I get the funky results. No mention yet of NGC. Why would anyone, when presented with a big GPS Icon in the first row of icon selections, when looking for GPS, and presented with a selection that includes KLH guides, conclude that he is in the wrong place when looking for KLH GPS?

I finally found that when first entering the site there is a minor link for the "KR" GPS. And I found the sequence of entries with the rod length as the first question.

Why they would allow one to select KLH guides when on what is intended to be, but not labeled, NGC is beyond me.

thanks, guys, I'm finally on board. And as always, a firm advocate of Fuji and the KLH guides. Not a firm advocate of whoever designed the Anglers Resource web site.

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: Norman Miller (---.gtcom.net)
Date: September 10, 2018 09:41PM

You are right, the guide placement software button does not mention NGC, it works well for most Fuji guides, except for KLH guides where it gives really strange results. I agree Anglers Resource should label that button better. The button below it is labeled KR GPS and is the one that should be used for KR (KLH) guide placement, and it works really well.

Norm

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: herb canter (70.40.110.---)
Date: September 10, 2018 09:55PM

I completely forgot about that other GPS page but i know exactly what you're talking about now , yes, that one drove me nuts, i got so disgusted i gave up on that page and completely forgot about it lol . Michael, please report back with what you find works best for you after you're done with the testing, i would love to hear what you think.

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: Jim Ising (---.dyn.centurytel.net)
Date: September 12, 2018 10:41AM

We are working on a new website that will address these issues.

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Re: Bizarre guide spacing on Steez XT spinning rod: what to do?
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.alma.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: September 12, 2018 12:32PM

Herb, I have no immediate spin rod builds planned, but I'll try to remember to post my experience for you. I expect it will be very positive; always has been since I stated doing KLH builds. My last comment will simply be that since the weight differences between a train starting with a size 20 isn't significantly (at least to me) different than one starting with the 16, I'll most likely build with the 20 from now on for versatility (heavier braid capable).

Thanks Jim Ising on the web site comment. Get my email on the "FG tool?"

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