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Spiral Wrap and Rod Load
Posted by: Chris Sorenson (---.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
Date: June 27, 2018 06:04PM

Is the blank affected in a negative way by the spiral wrap load?
For instance my setup has (slow spiral)
Guide at 0 degrees (load coming straight down/to the blank)
Guide @45 degrees (line is contacting guide to the blank)
Guide @115 degrees (line is contacting guide to the blank)
Guide @135 degrees (line is contacting guide away from the blank)
Guide @180 degrees (line is contacting guide away from the blank)
The runners @180 (line is contacting guide at it 6 o'clock position away from the blank)

So the line/load is pushed into the blank in a spiral for 3 guides (0,45,115) and then the line is pulling away (135,180, 180+). I am wondering what does that do if anything? Does the blank get confused because of the misdirection of applied force? The load applied at 0 degrees is close to normal under full load (it does slightly side pull), the load applied at 45 & 115 is moderate (60% of what normal would be if they were placed at 0 degrees), the load applied at 135 & first 180 is low (20% they barely rest on the guide), and then the 180 degree runners all have what would be normal load applied.

As a side question:
If the line is barely contacting the guide at a 6/12o'clock position is that enough to transfer load? The 135 & first 180 degree guides in my setup the line just rests on the guide. I can measure the line deflection. For example when removed the distance between the blank and the line is 7.3mm for the 135. When added back in that distance goes to 6.0mm. As you can see the line just rests upon the guide. Looking at it with the eye it looks like a straight line. Do you need to see the angle of the line changing to be confident load is being applied?

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Re: Spiral Wrap and Rod Load
Posted by: Spencer Phipps (---.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
Date: June 27, 2018 06:36PM

Chris,
It would be nice to know what kind of rod this is going to be and the reel used. If you take the line out of all the guides except the tip top you'll see the line wants to go to the bottom on it's own, it's the rod and line's most natural state. I don't use so many guides to get to the bottom. I just go from the 0 to a 180 guide than put a guide half way between at 90, of 270 degrees depending on your preference. The spacing between the 0 and 180 guide can be between 8 and 11 inches depending on how the rod loads, and make all your 180 guides all the same size as your smallest running guide, I think this helps the line load on the guide and blank, larger guides let the line move quite a bit before the blank flex moves it to the guide. This system gives me no side loads, as the side guide is simply keeping the line off the blank, and in all honesty you could do without it on many builds.

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Re: Spiral Wrap and Rod Load
Posted by: Chris Sorenson (---.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
Date: June 27, 2018 06:54PM

Its a NFC 9'6" ST 964-2 (HM) its a fast action steelhead rod with the new Curado K reel.

I tried the simple spiral method and the slow spiral method seems to fit the blank better. I don't know if that's a function of the longer rod or the fact that my guides sit very low to the blank (my runners are Minima model F's #5). With the simple spiral for me the first 180 holds no load and the next guide holds almost no load. I don't get good load until the 3rd 180 guide and that leaves a large gap with the blank bearing no load. With a slow spiral i get a better load transition. I have also preformed test casts and the slow method killed the simple. Much more distance and it felt buttery smooth.

I actually got Edge rods to send me there spec for this blank with spiral wrap and it just did not work. Likely the guides we are using are much different.

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Re: Spiral Wrap and Rod Load
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 27, 2018 08:33PM

You can alter the guides sizes to get specific ones to make line contact sooner.

In effect, you can tie a line to the tip with no guides and there is no problem with "loading." Don't stress over it too much. As long as the rod is not subject to what is often referred to as a "bowstring" effect where the line passes below (or above) the blank between any pair of guides, it'll be fine.

..............

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Re: Spiral Wrap and Rod Load
Posted by: Michael Danek (---.drr02.mskg.mi.frontiernet.net)
Date: June 27, 2018 09:16PM

Blanks don't get confused, only we humans do that. I have a light power conventional wrap casting rod that twists 180 degrees under heavy stress, doesn't seem to hurt it.

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Re: Spiral Wrap and Rod Load
Posted by: Chris Sorenson (---.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)
Date: June 27, 2018 09:16PM

Thanks Tom,

I think i have been over stressing the load. I have static tested about 50 different combinations with different guides and spacing. It wasn't exactly a cheap blank and this is my first spiral wrap.

I am curious about load transmission. If the line is just making contact with the guide is that enough to transfer?

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Re: Spiral Wrap and Rod Load
Posted by: Tom Kirkman (Moderator)
Date: June 27, 2018 09:46PM

Remember that as you continue to load the rod the tip straightens out and the flex moves towards the butt. If you do a static stress test, you will find that the amount of stress on any guide from the line at any particular point changes as the overall load, and related flex, change.

Also remember what I said earlier - you can just tip a line to the tip and load the rod all you want - guides are not needed to "transfer" the load.

.............

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Re: Spiral Wrap and Rod Load
Posted by: roger wilson (---.hsd1.mn.comcast.net)
Date: June 27, 2018 10:57PM

Chris,
I just take the stance that as long as there a guide in a location on the blank so that the line follows the loaded blank you will be good to go.

At the end of the day, as long as you have appropriate guides on the rod, the blank will be nicely loaded.

If you had a bunch of identical inexpensive blanks, you could try a bunch of different guide sizes, angle orientation and then put on 200 lb test line and pull on the line until the blank breaks.

You could record the results of breaking blanks with different guide angle setups and let us all know your results.

But, short of that, I never put line on a rod that - as long as the blank is not high sticked - will not break the blank - no matter the guide angular orientation. i.e. the line will break before the blank breaks.


Good luck

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