good evening
I would like to share this experience. I fish tuna with one-piece rods that I assemble, without aluminum butt but with alluminion reel seat and alluminion gimbals and these are separated, and I use fishing line to 60 pounds with a drag of 25-30 pounds max reel. In a rod that I built a year ago, I had this problem: the aluminum gimbals has detached and so is the reel seat. the bonding process of the reel seat is the traditional process with adhesive tape and glue epoxy. For the components I use glue U-40 rod bond but for this rod I tested the glue U-40 Quik-Bond 10-Minute Rod Bond. which do you think is the reason for this problem?
thank you very much

I have not tested this But I have read that a Slow glue has a better bond I think it was that the slower it sets or cures makes the bond adhere better
For what ever it is worth I always us rod bond or any slower curing glue because of this
If you notice the quick or 5 mim glues are always used for quick glue ups and are not recommended for heavy use
I think it is the faster setting adhesive A good prep could also be at fault

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,
True statement.
Slow drying epoxy normally has a better bond. Slow drying epoxy is also a bit less brittle than quick drying epoxy and is less prone to letting go under shock loads.

I think that as much as anything, the slow cure epoxy lets the builder take more time to make all of the adjustments and get things perfect, where one might be rushed a bit when they use the fast cure epoxies.

I generally find that the real working time of an epoxy is about 1/2 the time listed on the adhesive. i.e. about 2 minutes working time for 5 minute epoxy. About 15 minutes working time for 30 minute epoxy.



Be safe

I agree with Bill, from what I have read and heard from others slow cure is usually stronger than fast cure epoxies. Could also be the combination of a fast cure epoxy and the use of an assumed masking tape arbor. I like using fiberglass dry wall tape as an arbor instead of masking tape when only a few wraps of tape are needed to fill the gap between the blank and the reel seat. This mesh tape is very light and allows the epoxy to flow through it bonding the reel seat to the blank. I also like using foam arbors when the gap is greater. I glue the arbor in the reel seat first then ream to fit the blank. I do the same thing for butt caps and gimbels. Both methods give a good strong bond.
Norm

Quick drying epoxy - such as 5-minute epoxy, is not necessarily less strong nor more brittle than slower curing epoxy. The amount of time it takes to cure is inconsequential. It is often true, however, that quick setting dime store epoxies are made from cheaper components and are not as strong nor secure as more expensive slower setting epoxies, but this has nothing to do with the time it takes them to cure. We did a lengthy article on this in a past RodMaker issue with the details provided by Ralph O'Quinn.

................

Hello All.

The article Tom speaks of is "Tougher Epoxy" by Ralph O'Quinn, in 17-4 Page 30.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

Technology keeps going forward What I had read was years ago

Bill - willierods.com

Robert A. Guist Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello All.
>
> The article Tom speaks of is "Tougher Epoxy" by
> Ralph O'Quinn, in 17-4 Page 30.
>
> Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.


I don't think that is the definitive article, but still worth rereading. Thanks

Written by a guy who is an epoxy formulator, and who was on the team that developed the original epoxies and epoxy bonding systems for Boeing Aircraft, it should definitely be worth reading. It does not go into the reasons why fast cure epoxies are not necessarily weaker than slower curing versions (that has mostly to do with the quality of the components used in the epoxy) but that has been covered in-depth in an earlier article. I'd have to go back and look up the volume and issue number.

..............

Hello Tom, Bill.

Try 9-5 Page 22 "Myths, Mythologizing and Myth-Makers".

It must have been a good article because it was re-printed in the 16-3 Page 10.

That's it right?

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

I think it's covered in that one, yes.

.............

Is that any thing like one should not thin finish I am not trying to open a Large can of worms I use 5 min epoxy and heck it works well

The only way to find out if some thing works for you is to try it If it doesn't work go to some thing else
Ralph does know his stuff !!

Bill - willierods.com

thank you all for the help
where can I find the article that indicates Robert?

Luca
Reading you post again I am wondering if it could be the prep of the parts Are you sanding the inside of all that is being glued and the place where it is being glued

Bill - willierods.com

Hello Luca.

The articles are in RodMaker Magazine, "Tougher Epoxy" can be found in Volume 17 #4 on page 30, the one Tom was talking about is in Volume 16 #3 on page 10 and if you don't have them already just go to the RodMaker Magazine on the left and purchase the back copies.

Tight Wraps & Tighter Lines.

Bob,

New Bern, NC.

ok thank you very much
luca

Luca , Drywall mesh tape is the only thing I use on every reel seat I install and never had one come loose. I have repaired many that were put on with masking or other kinds of tape.The tape is the arbor or filling and has no bonding properties.Its only the epoxy or glue on the outer edges of the tape that bonds the reel seat which is not enough.
Drywall mesh tape, as you know is an open screen fiberglass tape that allows to be completely saturated with your adhesive from the inner barrel of your reel seat to the surface of the blank. I don"t believe there could be any better bond then this.

Dennis J. Danku
(Sayreville,NJ)

When using tape for arbors I use 1/4" tape it is used just to center the seat or what ever is being used IF there is a large space where I have to put more then say 8 turns of tape a arbor is used
When using tape the bonding is that the tape 1/4" has a space in between each arbor The blank is prepped for adhesion The inside of the seat is prepped for adhesion at least 1 " of space is in between the tape so the bond IS OF THE SEAT AND THE BLANK Usually only three arbors of tape are used Never had one come loose as long as the seat is bonded to the BLANK

Bill - willierods.com

thank you dennis and bill.
dennis, can you give me an example of product of Drywall mesh ?
thank you very much

luca

for bill
if I understand what you say, the important thing is the bonding between blank and support (reel seato or gimbals)....... It would be a problem to use too much tape becouse It prevents a sufficient bonding between blank and support .. it's correct what I say?

thank you very much

luca



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/24/2016 04:03AM by luca maggiorelli.