Hi all I am laying out microguides for the first time on a casting rod. An MHX CB-905 (7'6"). Its mod-fast and bends a lot near the tip as one should expect on a composite crankbait rod. My guides are a size 6 stripper and 4's the rest of the way to the tip. I bought extra 4's just in case and in my static testing I am finding I need them all (all 13 plus the stripper and tip)!! That seems like a lot but they really need to be close together in the upper section of the rod where it bends a lot. Moving the stripper an inch or two closer to tip doesn't seem to help. I know I am going to get an earfull about switching to a spiral wrap, and I know the pros hate rookie questions about guide layouts, but all I am asking here is 14 guides + tip unusual for a blank like this?

Thanks!
Jason

I don't think you need that many. More than usual perhaps, but not necessarily 14. Keep in mind that the line isn't (shouldn't) be moving when the rod is flexed. You pull the fish to you with the rod and then recover line with the reel as you lower the rod. So the line isn't going to burn the rod blank finish or anything if it does touch the blank.

You don't want the line to pass below the rod blank under any anticipated flex, of course. Static test again with perhaps 10 or 12 guides and see what you can do.

.............

I know you don't want to start over with different guides, but for your next build you might consider different micros. Some are higher than others so work better on the top of a casting build.

By the way, I have ten guides on a 6' 8" casting build, and it casts just great. I guess that would be about the same as 12 on a 7 ' 6" blank.

Take it out and test cast it if you are happy the way it casts go with it. It is very difficult and in some cases nealy impossible to keep the line off a moderate to moderate fast casting blank when using a reasonable number of microguides (whatever that might be). This is one of the reasons some like using a spiral wrap. If you are not happy or want to reduce the # of guides, use a higher stripper, like a size 10, then your size 6 guide followed by the size 4 runners. This should help a little. You could also use size 4 1/2 or size 5 running guides to also help a little. A higher stripper gives you some wiggle room in guide placement. The guide closest to the tip top does not need to be closer than than about 31/2 " (or 9 cm), because at full flex it will be pointing straight down. The most important thing is to test cast it to see and feel how it performs. Do not be afraid to experiment with the guide train layout, it is the best way to learn. In my opinion line touching the blank, but not going below it, is not a big deal.
Norm

Jason,
For the same reason as you stated, I have built several rods in that length with 14 guides.

Nothing at all wrong with that number of guides. You get a nice clean line flow the line never touching the blank. I do agree with you, in that I do not believe that the line should ever touch the rod.

You are good to go.

Be safe

Thanks everyone. I actually agree with everyone here, even though there are opposite suggestions. I got to the 14 guides after trying to set up less first, and then adding an extra one at a time. I may go back and try to finnangle less guides but as Roger says the casting was pretty nice. I know a benefit of the micros is the light weight, and going up to 14 total may take away from that. But I will be using this tip-down so I am less concerned with weight. My main purpose with the micros is line control and getting casting distance for the cranking. My only doubt concerns whether extra guides would dial extra friction back into the system and decrease casting performance. I searched around and I see that there are rods by Denali that are 7'6" using 15 + tip, (but a heavy flipping rod), and Roger saying he has also built with 14 guides. This all suggests that it might not be so unusual after all.

Thanks,
Jason

I only started building last year, so perhaps I don't have enough experience as of yet, but I don't think it's unusual to have that many guides on that length of rod.

I've only built one rod with what I, but others may not consider micro guides, 4.5 Fuji CLAGs. It's a 7'2" medium heavy power with a fast action rod that I ended up with 11 guides on it, and I used 3 CLNAG double foot guides in the reduction train. A 10, an 8, and a 6, before I started using the 4.5s.

So no ..... considering the size guides you're using, I wouldn't think 14 would be unusual at all. As far as casting performance goes, my guess is that you're casting performance compared to a similar factory rod will mirror that of the rod I just mentioned. It blows away any of my similar factory rods when it comes to casting.

The extra guide or two may add a little weight, but they're going to add a little power as well. I wouldn't worry about it.

Jason.
I no longer have the weight differences between Micro and larger guides. I used to have most of them but have been using Micros so long now that I've bothered keeping up with that info.
But I can tell you that one 6 mm guide weighs about the same as six 3 mm guides.
So I'm going to suggest that about four 4 mm guides weigh what one 6 mm guide does.

That being the case
If you chose not to use an average of six- 6 mm guides on 7'-6" rod and used 4's instead? You could use about 24 of the 4's and end up with similar guide weight if you had used the 6's
So even if you use 14 of them your finished product will still weigh substantially less.
(Side Note: I would not use 24) just giving an example

As for me I always build spiral set ups and use and average of 11 guides on 7'-6" rods.
1- 6 mm double ft, 1- 4 mm single, and 9- 3 mm down to 1.5 mm guides for the rest.
Some times on lighter rod I will use single ft 6 or even a 5 mm guide.

No body should hate rookie questions, some times they ask a question that no one has thought about before which makes us all think and sometimes leads to better rods.

Steve, that is interesting about the weights and a very good point. I am still monkeying with the layout but it does appear I will be going back to what I arrived at the first time. It cast really nice that way, and it had a silky smooth feel to it, similar to the microwave set I built on a spinning rod. It even feels slick on the retrieve. I don't have a specific system laid out here, but I figure the concept ought to be similar to the descriptions by Fuji of their different methods - basically, more small guides are still lighter than conventional guide setups, and also performs better.

Fourteen is going beyond the point of diminishing returns……you’ll give up more than you’ll get.

Jim,
I think that the number of guides is really up to the builder and it is up to the builder to decide on what works best for him/her.

The reason that this is called Custom Rod building, is that you can build a rod in any "custom" way that you wish. Your decisions, your build.

Be safe

Roger,
Agreed, but I think Jason did ask for input and by doing so, sometimes you get what you want to hear….and sometimes not. My opinion differs from your previous input, so yes, ultimately, the decision is his, but in all fairness, he needs to be aware that there are many compromises in rod building…..not to mention differing opinions regarding build techniques.

Jim,
10-4 on your comments. I agree.

Be safe