I was casting a fly rod I was in the process of wrapping and what happened has led me to a question. The first stripping guide (high framed, single foot, titanium Minima) on the rod was only wrapped on for casting purposes. No finish had been applied. What I noticed was that after 10 minutes or so of casting, the guide had moved its way to the left side of the blank (I cast right handed). Obviously, the pull of the line with my left hand while hauling had caused it to move to the left. So, I got to thinking, why not put the guide where it wants to be anyway? Why not make it easier for the line to flow to the guide train? I'm guessing most folks don't hold their hauling hand in direct line with the stripping guide. I don't know if it would have any real effect or not. Seems like it might. Kind of interesting I guess.
Anyone else ever tried or thought about this?

People have been doing this for years, but the results are more than debatable. You could just as easily turn the rod a bit in your hand and and achieve the same thing.

As a custom rod builder, you can also move it over, tape in down, and try it and see what you think.

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A result of doing this is, when retrieving the line on the reel, it will now not be coming in on a straight line. Most important when fighting a fish "on the reel!"

You can do it, but the reel will load line to one side of the spool. The guide moving probably has more to do with the casting angle and individual casting style. With a single foot guide as the stripping guide, I am guessing that you are building a light rod, 3, or 4 wt. Long Cast are usually not the norm with these guys, but the line loading on the spool will be quite noticeable.

Good thoughts.
I don't fish where I need to fight fish off the reel. But, I see how that would be an issue. As well as line loading properly on reel.
I've been using the single foot, high frame Minimas on my 8 weight I use to throw big bugs for smallies and their more than up to the task. Now muskie or tarpon, not sure. But, I have a feeling they'd be fine.

Todd,
Based on your comments, you haul aggressively.
Casting large flies into winds or attempting to be more accurate forces strong hauls.
You can reduce the torque on the rod due to hauling by utilizing a standard height guide.
I would suggest using a double foot also. I've known of aggressive hauling to split ferrules on 4 piece rods.
None of us are perfect and executing a haul will almost always be out of plane with the rod movement, creating the torque.
I've attempted to haul "in plane" with rod deflection but it "feels" awkward and restrictive. Requires far too much thought while fishing.

Gene

I'm sure I do over exert. Trying to smooth it all out.
So, the standard sized guide is better for the torque? Does it take it from the rod and put it on the guide? Therefore needing a beefier guide?

Todd,
I didn't state that you were over exerting. You do what you feel is required in the cast.
A high frame guide twists from the haul. This twist rotates the blank reducing the haul power rather than increasing blank flex.
Just inefficient. A short frame stouter guide resists twisting placing more of your haul energy into blank flex increasing line speed.
If you put forth the effort you should enjoy the rewards.
You may lose distance on the line shoot due to line slap, but this can be reduced by using your thumb and forefinger of your off hand as a line guide. The added benefit is the line is already in your fingers and if you get a quick strike you needn't find the line for the hook set.

Gene

Makes sense. I will give it a try.
Thanks

Or you can wrap the guides on with thread, which will hold them in place during a haul, or fish fighting, etc.

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I did have the guides wrapped on the rod. Just no finish applied. It still moved. But, it probably loosened and then began to move.
I haven't had any problems on my other rod with high frames. I think it's just that everything is a trade off. You get a little and lose a little. I give everything a try.

I don't know of anyone that pulls their fly line off the reel, directly in line with the rod. There will always be some sideways pressure, and without finish your guide is gonna move...that's a sign you didn't wrap the guide with too much thread pressure, which is a good thing.

I've wrapped stripper guides on my fly rods rotated slightly towards my left. I really can't say if it helped or not: I'm still just a mediocre fly fisherman.....ha. But I do guide my line onto the reel, when retrieving.

Like Tom said, tape it up and give it a try. If you like it, keep it.

Take care,

Chris

One good thing about custom rodbuilding as there are many ways to get creative and whatever works for you is the answer

I don't know about fly rods but when I test cast my guide layouts before wrapping, most of the guides on the tip end rotate off to one side, sort of like what you describe with your line stripping. When its a spinning rod casting right handed, the guides move counterclockwise some so that they are pointing at about 4 or even 3 o'clock when the reel is pointing straight down. I am pretty sure I have had the spine lined up with the seat in all of these cases, so I have chalked it up to my own casting style which apparently moves the rod - or lure - at some angle to the spine. Its made me wonder how important finding the spine really is, at least for casting. I also wonder if lining up the spine with that odd angle the guides want to be during the cast would affect distance/accuracy, but I haven't tried that experiment. The rod's load with a fish on is a whole different story though. I have no doubt that questions like these must have been beat to death a long time ago, like Ford vs. Chevy, but it still has me wondering!

Spine won't have anything to do with it. When you load the rod on the backcast, the lever arm effect of the guides will cause them to twist off to one side. On a casting rod that will happen in reverse - when you have a fish on the line.

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I'm not sure this was covered by responses above, but the higher the guide is, the more leverage it assert on the rod.

By leverage do you mean stress as a negative? Or, leverage as power in a positive?

There is a lever arm effect, which increases with the height of the guide (distance to the rod blank). Under load from a fish, this would not be a problem and would actually make the rod more stable. On the cast it could induce some rod twist on the forward cast, but as your hand is grasping the rod not far below that point and due to the length of the rod and the more flexible mid and tip areas, it's not going to be an issue.

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Makes sense.