Here is a finish problem I have not run into before. 17 high school students participated in an ice fishing rod building class recently. In addition to building the rod and wrapping the guides many of the students magic marbled the grips. [www.facebook.com]

Of the 18 rods built, 3 had tacky finish. But that isn’t the mystery, only a couple of guide wraps were tacky on these rods. The grips and remaining guides were dry!
Finish – Threadmaster high build (have used it for years, never a problem)
Procedure – 3ml of high build of each part (6 ml total) were measured, by the same instructor, with syringes and put into a mixing cup. Students were given round plastic stir stick and shown how to SLOWLY mix so as to not introduce bubbles. They were told to mix for a timed 5 minutes, and that the finish should be clear when they were done mixing.

Students were told to dump finish onto aluminum foil squares and call an instructor over to be shown how to apply the finish. Instructors looked over the rods prior to instructors placing them in rotating dryers to make sure thread and grips were properly covered.

IF the finish was not measured correctly then NONE of the finish should have set up and dried correct?
IF the finish was not mixed properly (possible teenager factor here) then again wouldn’t all of the finish have been tacky?
I can understand an entire rod being tacky. But one guide on an entire rod and grip? 4 guides tacky but grip dry?

I have taught several hundred teens rod building. Never had this happen.

What do you think?

Buzz

Pretty certain that portions of unmixed finish are involved. Round stir sticks are not the best option for mixing finish. Any portion of finish that perhaps winds up on the cup sides and then is poured onto the foil will result in areas of unmixed or poorly mixed finish. The applicant picks up finish from that area and applies it to a wrap - bingo! That wrap or some portion of it won't set up or cure fully.

....................

I agree with Mr. Kirkman on unmixed finish getting on the rod.

When I mix finish, I use only craft or popsicle sticks. I run them through the saw to cut off the round end. Then, I touch the end of the stick to very slightly round the corners of the stick. This way, one can get into all parts of the mixing cup and wipe off the sides of the cup, and scrape the finish off of the stick as you mix. By doing this, all parts of the finish is mixed and there are no unmixed finish in the cup or on the stick.

After mixing, the stick is wiped off with a paper towel so that it can be used again.

Good luck

Look at the Flex-coat video on epoxy, a full two minutes of mixing. Use the sticks Roger recommends, stick 100% to the Flex Coat instructions, let dry in a good environment, and you should not have any problems. I was way past my teens before I could mix something for two full minutes.

Micheal,
I convinced it was "operator error" with the students involved I just like to get another rod builder's perspective. Ive help teach the Mud Hole classes for the last three years (about 1500 students) and when we have a very rare tacky finish problem it us usually most of the rod, not one guide here and one guide there. That was interesting. We got it fixed so its all good.
Thanks to all for the help everyone.
Buzz

Buzz Butters Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Students were
> given round plastic stir stick and shown how to
> SLOWLY mix so as to not introduce bubbles. They
> were told to mix for a timed 5 minutes, and that
> the finish should be clear when they were done
> mixing.
>

> Buzz

Whatever works for folks, I guess. Me? While I don't beat it like an egg, I certainly border on the act when mixing 2-part anything and it works better. By no means slow, always end up with many bubbles, and will turn again once poured on foil with a spatula to get any "unmixed clinging residual" from the original mix bowl. I just let it sit a bit until the bubble field rises and pops at the surface.

There's always that little bit unmixed that clings with tension to the bottom or sides of the original bowl, only availing itself during the foil dump. So you mix on the foil a bit, too.

I actually use an ashtray with no interior ridges (perfectly smooth bowl) to mix but still don't trust mix 100% after pouring onto foil. Could never use a cup and even make my own stir-spat contoured to the mixing bowl curve. It all helps avoid tiny unmixed portions sneaking onto the final project.

Thanks joseph, interesting.

I don't care to pour the mix onto a foil. I have never found it necessary, since I don't use a mix that has set for more than a few minutes. Rather, I just mix slowly in a cup, apply the finish and then pitch the cup. I just find it less messy and it works well for me. I do agree that the mix being more concentrated will "kick" into the cure more quickly, so I use the finish before it begins to "kick" or cure.

Be safe

I will add I use exclusively U40 LS Supreme and what I do works well for me. What Roger said above about the "kick"? Some products might get thick and difficult to apply with extended time, hi-build products might as well.

I tend to gravitate toward products which have a more generous working time, especially with 2-parts. Buzz, although Threadmaster HB works well for you, perhaps the students would do better with other formulas. LS Supreme is very forgiving and has nice working time. Darn near immune to humidity and temp changes, something to think about in classroom settings.

The contour stir stick that Roger and I mentioned might go a long way with the newbs.

Thanks Joseph,
With the Mud Hole classes we use Pro Kote. I will check that out too.............

I use the bottom of a pop can to mix my finish. I use a science probe, like ones used in a biology class to mix and apply my finish. It has a 45 degree angle to it. Much like Joseph says, I usually mix pretty fast and do get a bubbles. I have found that the concave surface of the bottom of the can allows finish to settle/run back to the center even when "pulling" it up the sides while mixing. This works well for me and the students I have taught rod building to in the middle school where I work. I also use the U40 finish.