Capt Neil

I see a lot of posts like this Yes factory rods are going higher
BUT
Where do they get there ideas for how to build ?? HERE And if this is the best site on the net This is where they go
I have not checked in a while but a rod off the shelf With a split grip LEARNED HERE and any new seats THAT THEY PAY A 10TH OF WHAT WE DO
And every supplier teaching every fisherman how to build
Posts reading What to charge -- what the market will bare
BUT dame don't tell people making the parts that YOU not ME will pay 4 - 5 times the price

I mean if many told me I am worth 4 times the money I charge now -- What the heck I will charge it

But people will not pay -- SO WHY TELL COMPANIES TO RAISE THERE PRISES -- makes no sense

Most blanks are the price of a store rod What is wrong with this picture

Bill - willierods.com

Hi Bill,

You are certainly entitled to your opinions and feelings. We may or might not agree and that is fine. My posts reflect what I see in my world, an imperfect world at best. Yes, I can not compete with the big boys so I have to have a business model that meets the needs of anglers looking for something different.

Over the years I have attended many rod building seminars around the country. That has enabled me to meet many of the leaders and employees of the rod blank companies. These people know all about designing and building a custom rod. I have learned from them.

No matter what we do there will be competition and we have to deal with it as best we can. There will always be the big boys and also those builders who fly under the radar or give their work away for almost nothing.

Take care.

It just is like going to a car dealer and telling the dealer you will give them more money for the car
Does not make sense
I know the faults on metallic thread and have dealt with them -- but have learned to make them work
A little Common Sense goes a long way

Why should you or me lower our labor to please a Customer I have bills to pay

When every thing I buy - food Cable goes up parts blanks seats guides rent insurance

Bill - willierods.com

bill boettcher Wrote:
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> It just is like going to a car dealer and telling
> the dealer you will give them more money for the
> car
> Does not make sense

Bill, your take on going to a car dealer and giving them more money for the car makes no sense. It does make sense though if you have to pay more for a Mercedes than you do for a Yugo. I believe what Neil is trying to say is that he would be happy to pay more for a quality product that would meet his needs than accept mediocre thread. The other side of this is you don't need to lower your price or profits as the extra costs should be passed on to the customer. If you can't pass the extra charges on to the customer you would have to do one of two things; find another area to cut costs or improve your efficiency in order to complete the rod in less time thus saving money. Henry Ford found by using the assembly line that he could produce for the masses and still make a profit, while the other manufacturers were building each car by hand charging more for it. This is really a moot point as the total up charge on a rod for thread would be about a nickel. If you don't have the stomach for this business you may want to look into another endeavor as you don't seem to be cut out for this one.

Mark

it is the cost of living !!
Every thing goes up -- And i am or should lower my labor Build for less ??- Please

Have you read anything about HACKING
Every thing is made as a computer Even cars AND CAN BE HACKED
Technology is not the best thing how many people have DIED for cars screwing up Because of Technology

The last time I checked out ST Croix's site there blanks are about the same price of there rods ----- Technology ?????
Good for who ????? Plains get hacked Cars and of course you computer And all you do is PAY MORE for this wonderful thing

Bill - willierods.com

Bill life is full of choices, you don't have to use a computer or a car if you are afraid of being hacked. Also I don't believe that I said anything about the fact that you need to lower your prices, if you will re-read the previous answer you will see "The other side of this is you don't need to lower your price or profits as the extra costs should be passed on to the customer.". I also said that the price difference on the thread used on a rod would be about 5 cents, if your customer will not pay the upcharge for a better product, then you need different customers.

The point of St Croix selling their (not there) blanks for as much as their rods, you should check your facts: a St Croix 5C70MF-B blank retails for $190, the corresponding complete rod LXS70MHF retails for $420. The difference is $230 between a blank and a completed rod, for that price you should be able to come up with some cork, guides, labor to wrap guides and no extra bling. If you can't, I will reiterate you may not be cut out for this business and may want to look into basket weaving, but I have a feeling you would harbor the same hard feelings about other basket weavers as the big box basket weavers would be picking on you as well. Some times you have to ask yourself is it me or them, I have a feeling it's you.

Also get your facts straight about cars, if you look at the statistics on car fatalities the rate of fatal car deaths in 1960 was a ratio of 5.06, the latest listing that I found was currently at a ratio of 1.48. Cars with technology are much more safe than they ever have, so please get your facts straight before you pontificate.

OK
I am so wrong
I checked out a st croix LXS59MXF rod $370.00 without shipping
As fare as I could figure
Blank $170.00
seat $ 13.40 fuji split
guides fuji concept spinning SIC- 6 guides ?
$ 46.46

No thread- no finish- no handle parts - no labor O yes add shipping to that also

Cars
Toyota -- people died because of a PIN that was too SHORT in the ignition switch Cost about 3 bucks If I remember correctly -- check it out
Also check out how many CARS have been RECALLED sense then Almost EVERY company has MANY for air bags brakes - And many other things going wrong with that Technology
Texing and now computers in the dash Please no wonder we need Self Driving Cars

Bill - willierods.com

Capt Neil Your a nice guy But a little Reality I play in the market -- I here this stuff every day

Your better off with a '55 chevy rebuilt

Bill - willierods.com

bill boettcher Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK
> I am so wrong
> I checked out a st croix LXS59MXF rod $370.00
> without shipping
> As fare as I could figure
> Blank $170.00
> seat $ 13.40 fuji split
> guides fuji concept spinning SIC- 6 guides ?
> $ 46.46
>
> No thread- no finish- no handle parts - no labor O
> yes add shipping to that also
>
> Cars
> Toyota -- people died because of a PIN that was
> too SHORT in the ignition switch Cost about 3
> bucks If I remember correctly -- check it out
> Also check out how many CARS have been RECALLED
> sense then Almost EVERY company has MANY for air
> bags brakes - And many other things going wrong
> with that Technology
> Texing and now computers in the dash Please no
> wonder we need Self Driving Cars

Bill are you driving a 55 Chevy?

Bill did you invent the split grip, if so I thank you for it. If not why are you so upset that the rod manufacturers are using this technology or Black Magic as you like to refer to it?

Bill the blank at $170.00, the seat at $13.40, guides at $46.46, urethane core $5.00, Plasticoat for the skin of the grip $5.00, the expensive thread $1.00, a couple of winding checks $5.00 and $10.00 misc would give you a total of $255.86 a difference of $104.14. You should be able to assemble the rod with out a butt wrap or bling for the $104.14 not to mention if you get a discount on the parts as a wholesale account would net you another 20-30%. So yes you were incorrect as you so eloquently stated.

Bill you are still also incorrect on the current state of the automobile and the Black Magic (sorry technology) that you are so dead set against. You need to check your facts, cars today are safer than they ever have been, you seem to give a lot of advice that is not based on facts only your feelings. Also if you are so afraid of this Black Magic you may need to stay away from these infected and hacked computers and keep on, trucking on with your 55 Chevy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2015 03:37PM by Mark Blabaum.

I would rather have a 55 then any car made today Simple and I can fix any thing on it without going to a dealer any getting ripped off Too bad it would take at least about 60000.00 to build Completely
Most if not ALL car companies are recalling cars because of Defects in there technology And they keep on putting computers in them Distracting to the driver -- Which Can Be Hacked people have done it I have seen on the news one guy did it to a plain he was on And told them Can you say TERMINATOR
back to rods - what about when they want butt wraps painted seats Hight end parts - Stuff ain't cheep
You want a Chevy or a Mercedes Bends O ya what about a guarantee They are all Limited Lifetime The big boys have learned Costs them to much

Bill - willierods.com

Let's get back to the basic question. Would you pay more for a better thread? Simple enough. Some of us would and others do not want to pay more. That is fine for both sides of the question. I would like to have such a choice.

Capt Neil Faulkner

Some day I will get a spool Can not see the price
A little German ingenuity I have learned how to work with things I do not like so much and make them work
Like the Body Repairman's code
I have done so much
With so little
I can now do
Everything With nothing

Bill - willierods.com

bill boettcher Wrote:
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> back to rods - what about when they want butt
> wraps painted seats Hight end parts - Stuff ain't
> cheep

Bill that would be an up charge, the rods that would have that kind of material wouldn't sell the rod for the same price as a stock rod, why would you? It would be the customers choice, if they are willing to pay the upcharge they can have the bling, if they aren't willing to pay they wouldn't get the bling.

Keep pressing my buttons
Have a nice Day

Bill - willierods.com

Good talk Bill.

Neil, I would pay more. I have also used metallic embroidery threads with very good results. In addition, I haven't encountered knots thus far. My first spool was acquired in 1987. I tended to use that spool of gold for under wraps,inlays, and weaves. I still have that same spool and there is a lot left on it. I only paid $10 for it. I call that one heck of a bargain! I have been using others for over 3 years now. I haven't actually compared the cost factor with metallics marketed for rodbuilding. Initially they actually seemed less expensive. There is also a greater color selection. Embroidery and quilting comprises a significantly greater market than what rodbuilding appears to manufacturers. So guess where the emphasis is put?

Mark

I did not mean to cut you off I usually put a quick cross wrap with some added metallic to spice it up
Just cause I don't like a rod that is a Plain Jain 0 charge
But it seems most want a rod as good looking as a off the shelf rod where they put nice decals on more then I can do for the price
Look at the rods off the shelf - they are giving very nice decals very fancy ones - They I would have to charge - Up-charge
Because of the higher parts charge - blanks - seats Fuji Thread it causes more Even some thing that one would just buy parts for and glue them on The parts added up cost a good deal

And I got to make some thing on the labor In my pocket !!!

Bill - willierods.com

Bill you can charge what ever you want for a rod, but you loose the right to complain about it when you won't charge people for the extra parts and labor to complete the task you are asked to do. The up charge on a better metallic thread would be about a nickel, instead of charging $100 for the rod you should charge $100.05. The same goes for labor, if you stick 5 hours into a wrap you should not change the same $100. You should charge for the extra time involved, if you don't charge for it don't complain that your customers won't pay for it.