Recently, I did a double out wrap with Madeira Polyneon thread. The pattern was incredible - the metallic luster of the thread simply jumped off the blank. But when I put the color preserver on, that luster was considerably lost. Sad. The wrap still looks okay, but how to preserve that metallic luster of the thread? Appreciate any suggestions.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2015 04:31PM by Phil Hageman.

Metallic don't need CP

Freddwhy (Rapt-Ryte)

Once you put the epoxy on you may find that the luster comes back up.

................

Hello,

If you are referring to the slick, shiny, look of Madeira as it sits on the spool--that sheen is from the silicone used to make it suitable for sewing machines. As you mentioned the intensity of that shine is toned down when using color preserver, more noticeably on darker shades of Madeira. For me it did not come back once finish was put on, but I have found that using Madeira without color preserver will preserve the original glossy look a bit better. The downside to this is that the darker colors will get much darker. Also you need to experiment with different types of finishing techniques/products as most epoxy finish will fish-eye badly due to the silicone used in Madeira.

-chad

Fred, Tom, and Chad,

Thanks for your viewpoints. I guess the silicon/CP incompatibility is the crux of the problem since the luster remains muted even after addition of epoxy. If only a way to get around this, thread art would take on a new dimension. Thanks again.

Phil

Not knowing what is considered as "hijacking a thread" on this site, I hope that it is proper to make a possible suggestion, while asking a question?

The FishHawk bright nylon thread appears to have the same sheen that the Madeira thread has. I understand that Madeira offers a much greater choice of colors, but it could be a possible alternative?

My question would be .... does CP have the same affect on the bright nylon FishHawk thread, that it has on the Madeira thread being discussed?

Once again I hope I haven't over stepped my bounds. Much like rod building, I'm still learing the intricacies and etiquette of posting to this forum.

David, Glad you stepped in! My interest is - after practicing a pattern four times before final wrap, and seeing it in glorious sheen, it would be nice to capture the moment..... Phil

Phil, thank you for not minding that I stepped in. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to have happen, what you described. For me it would be like losing a big bass at the boat, by the knocking the bait out of its mouth, with the landing net.

There was something else that I had in mind when making my initial post, but to be honest I wasn't sure if it would sound stupid to mention it. I don't know if it's something that you or others have considered, but I'm wondering is something could be added to your finish that would eliminate fish eyes, much like what you see done in some instances in the automotive paint industry?

I'd imagine finding the proper mix ratio between the two may present a problem, But it could be worth experimenting with?

Just a thought ....

Hello David,

I have tried what you propose and in most cases the finish either turned cloudy or softened after curing. It also left the wraps with a slippery sheen that could interfere with adhesion of successive coats epoxy. The problem with automotive fish-eye eliminator is that they were developed for two-part enamel paints--not rod building finish. Some of them also contain chemicals that are best applied with a respirator, just like automotive paint.

A more successful way rod-builders have found is to place a yard or two of the Madeira thread into your mixing cup prior to mixing. Works on the same principle as fish-eye eliminator by modifying surface tension and allowing for the paint or finish to "wet out" evenly. I should mention that although successful, this technique does not work with every brand of rod-builidng finish and must be tested for compatibility.

If only some chemist would come along and develop a product, (similar to what West Systems has), that would allow us to modify the qualities of our epoxy finish while making it compatible with silicone sewing thread and preserving its luster. That would be quite a boon.

-chad

Hi Chad. I'm not surprised by your response. Actually I was expecting this type of response, which is why I didn't mention it in my first post to this thread. I figured as freely as the members of this site share information, that if it was a viable option, I surely would have seen it while reading past posts. I did see what you mentioned about adding a piece of Madeira thread into your mixing cup in a past thread though. Definitely an inovative idea.

Anyhow .... thank you for your response Chad. I appreciate your sharing what the effect of using fisheye eliminator has on rod finish. And Phil, thank you for letting me share your thread. I appreciate it as well.

So to push this topic further - exactly what are the different CPs? Those I've used were water soluble or non-water soluble. Specifically, what are their chemical names? After we identify them, then we could ask a chemist how we might make them work with silicon-impregnated thread.

Also, I'm intrigued by the notion of putting silicon thread in the mixing cup. Do you mean in a bottle of CP, or a mixing cup of epoxy? Maybe that's a clue - a form of silicone, powder or liquid, that can be added? Guess you can tell I'm not a chemistry major.

Is there a thread expert out there having done research on this issue?

There is a Madeira thread outlet here in Jacksonville and I will go by and ask them if they have any ideas. Will take the rod in question to show them the problem, and will report back to the forum.

Meanwhile - everybody, PLEASE CHIME IN! Let's stir this issue.

IT's not an issue. Any thread that has something soak into it and dry is going to change it's appearance. The word you're looking for I think is iridescence that gets lost. WHen I do wraps with 20 shades in them the glow and sheen do get toned down once CP is added. IT's just how it is. IT still looks vibrant once epoxy is on it and you take it out in teh sun though

Hi Phil,

Good questions.

The Madeira thread is added to the epoxy mixing cup prior to mixing.

Regarding everything else, I don't have the chemistry know-how to push the topic further, but would be very interested in hearing what the folks at Madeira say.

Thanks for doing this and keep us posted.

-chad



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2015 03:44PM by Chad Barlongo.

Phil,

I wonder if that "Bubble Buster" product would have any effect on what we are talking about?

If it changes the surface tension so that bubbles can be released, perhaps it would also work for reducing fish-eyes?

Or perhaps not.

I haven't tried it, just something that came to mind when browsing other posts.

-chad