Two questions. I'm planning to build an 8'6" steelhead/salmon rod using the kr concept system and was wondering, in your opinions, which guide plays the most important role as far as casting goes? Stripper, choker, runners or the tip top? Or maybe all of them? Reason why I'm asking is I can't seem to justify spending $45 bucks on just a titanium sic stripper guide lol. I want to put the money in where it matters the most. I was even thinking of replacing the stripper and or the train guides with alconite guides and use sic runners and tip? Or vice versa? That leads to my second question, is if anyone has ever used two different guide(alconite and silicon carbide) on the same rod? Any noticeable differences?

Sorry a little more than two questions but any feedback would be great! And if anything, I'll just fork up the cash for all ti sic guides lol since I'm a sucker for lighter weight components.

Hardloy or SIC guides are all you need. I wouldn't pay $45 for a single stripper guide on a bet!!

In casting, none really play much of a role. There is very little friction between the line and the guide ring. There is no real force pressing them against one another. Under load from a fish, however, there will be some difference as you move to a smoother and smoother guide ring surface. But all the guides you mention are relatively smooth. It'll be hard to really discern much practical difference.

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Titanium offers two main advantages. It won't corrode - which is not an issue for you and It is the best choice for maintaining a crisp, fast feeling in the top section of the rod. Some will argue that the weight difference is too small to be able to tell. It's just not true. What you hardly notice on the scale you can absolutely feel in the rod. Ask anyone using Titanium runners. So IMO, runners are the best place for titanium and, fortunately, the least expensive place to "upgrade".

In your case I agree with Randolph. I think you will be very happy with Stanless ALCONITE®. If you are truly maniacal about light components...get a second mortgage and find Titanium TORZITE®

Sid,
Save the money from the stripper guide and spend it on the tip top and top 1/3 running guides.
The top third of the blank travels further and faster than the lower portion.
The biggest bang for the buck is weight reduction in the tip.

Check out American tackle guides
And pacific bay minima's

Bill - willierods.com

Thanks for the input everyone!

Set a guide budget and upgrade by minimizing weight from the tip back towards the butt. This will give you the most bang for the buck for what you want to do.

Sid,
When you look at guide characteristics, it is tough to say anything negative about the Pac Bay minima guides.
Many many of these guides are put on rods every day and very few if any issues with any of these guides are ever reported.
Why do you use a $50 guide when a $1 guide will be lighter and do an equally good job?

Your choice.

Roger,

The reason why I'm leaning towards the fugi kr guides is because it's already "set up" for the kr concept which is what I want to build. But if the minimas will work equally as well then I would not mind trying them. What size guide would I use for stripper and the other two guides leading towards the choker guide? Thanks

Are you making a spinning or casting rod?

Sid, IMHO the most important issue is getting the guide layout you want - K vs Microwave vs whatever else,. I haven't checked all guide dimensions, but if you can get guides that emulate the K series layouts in finishes you like in ring quality you like, go for it. It may mean dblue on the runners, and Fuji on the reduction guides., I very much doubt if anyone can tell the difference between SIC and alconite for casting or durability on reduction guides. Tip top, mayber, reduction guides or runners, I don't believe it. I think the Fuji titanium alconites make a lot of sense. Your original idea makes a lot of sense. One thing about very small guides, if they are the same general finish, they will match the reduction guides fine.l You can't see enough of them to find any differences.

It will be a spinning rod. Thanks for all the inputs, I'm gonna do a little more research on a few more guides before committing.

Sid, you've gone from considering Fuji Titanium all the way down to $1 Pac Bays. No shortage of choices here. I think your first choice was your best choice.

All depends on how much you want to spend

Bill - willierods.com

Sid Thao Wrote:
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> It will be a spinning rod. Thanks for all the
> inputs, I'm gonna do a little more research on a
> few more guides before committing.


Sid,

I sort of agree with Jim Ising on this one, there have been recommendations all over the board. Heck you could go cheaper than $1 if you really wanted to, you could buy some used guides or get some for free from discards or broken rods, but i don't think that's what your looking for. If I was building your rod for myself, I would consider the mid priced guides from any manufacturer which tend to be at the sweet spot where quality, durability, strength, price, performance, and value all tend to meet up pretty well. Just for the sake of discussion let us assume you settle on Fuji Alconites for the ring material. Once this decision is made, look over the product lineup for opportunities to minimize frame weight of the guides starting at the tip and working your way back. Determine the minimum runner ring size you must have to adequately pass your rigging or any kind of splices to leaders. By now you have the guide material and ring size nailed down and you can do an initial cost estimate. With this info, you can decide if you want to invest any more money or not. Let's say you feel you would be willing to invest an additional $20. So where do you get the best bang for the buck?

Invest in weight savings starting at the tip and working your way back. Grams of weight saved out on the end of a long steelhead rod, for instance the last 4 runners, will be more beneficial to overall rod performance, than money spent on a single stripper guide. Keep in mind that each additional guide you upgrade closer to the handle will provide less of a performance boost. At some point it just doesn't make sense to overspend on guides from a strictly performance standpoint. Only you can determine what makes sense for you and your budget.

I wouldn't worry so much about marketing hype as to one brand vs another, nowadays all the guides are very good quality. Look for a system of guides that give you the flexibility to mix and match from the available combination of guide frame styles with the ring material you are comfortable with. This is where the value will be for you.

Choosing guides can be quite the headache. There's so many choices to chose and recommendations. But I think I pretty much already settled on the Fugi kr series titanium guides. Alconites for the transition guides and silicon carbide for runners and tip. Since I am new to building rods, I want to test out the guides made for this concept first before proceeding other guides although I'll be paying a premium price. But I will be considering the pac bays as well as the microwaves for other builds I have in mind.

I was trying to do a little more research in difference in weight but had no real available luck. Does anyone have a chart that compares guide weights? Thanks again guys!

As a guide Daiwa's JigCaster rods uses Fuji alconite guides but a Sic tip top. What disappoints me is the poor quality that some manufacturers use especially in the budget range. I guess being budget says it all but don't forget they buy in the thousands and their costs per unit is low compared to what you and I pay. Rant over, if you can afford, use titanium to avoid corrosion problems. Stainless steel will be next best for economy and corrosion resistance. If you are happy to replace guides some time in the future by all means use budget guides. Quite frankly, in actual use I don't find Sic a great advantage. Many of my rods are alconite and I don't have any problems with them. I have broken Sic however but that wasn't a Fuji. Secondhand guides are avail

As far as guide weights is it worth chasing just to save a few grams? Maybe you should look at micro guides.