So, I was just about to ship out a recent build to a customer and was looking over my guides when I noticed the first guide was off slightly. After closer inspection the guide seemed loose and pulled right out from under the finished wrap very easily, I then decided to test some of the others and easily pulled every guide off the blank? The guides are a tidal wave spinning set, the blak is a Batson rx8 xsw72mhm, thread was fish hawk a size, with 2 coats of cp, and a coat of flex coat ultra uv. So the question is what happened? Were my wraps too loose, did the cp not allow the flex coat soak in, is the titanium chrome finish on the blank too smooth, could it be a combination of all the above? This is about my 25 build, 6th on a rx8 blank, 8th build with micro wave guides, but first with the tidal wave titanium set and 3rd time I have used cp on the threads, I have never had this issue with previous builds?? I obviously am going to redo the rod, but want to make sure I don't have the same issue. I will lock the guides on when I wrap them this time, and may not use the cp, but was curious as to what your thoughts are.

Were you using metallic thread? I made myself a build a couple years ago with thicker, all metallic thread. The guides are now very wiggly and probably would come off if I tried. I suspect it's because the epoxy/varnish wasn't able to soak in as much as normal thread. It also could be that the thread seems to wrap more like a tiny linked chain-- not fully circular, but one link at a time-- and this didn't "hug" the guides as much.

If you used CP I'm guessing it's not metallic, but maybe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2014 12:11AM by Scott Degen.

Edit: Double Post



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/15/2014 12:10AM by Scott Degen.

Hi Chad,

When using single foot guides, you may want to utilize the Forhan locking wrap. Check the library. This has additional wraps around the shank of the guide, to prevent what you experienced.

And whether you use cp or not (I don't), you want to make sure the tunnel and around the guide foot gets filled with cp or epoxy. This will stabilize the guide and assist in preventing it from pulling out.

Chris

No metallic used, but seemed like the epoxy did not soak in to the thread. I've only used cp twice before this build with mixed results. First one came out well, second was blotchy color wise, so I made sure I used two coats this time and allowed it to dry for a day before coating with epoxy.

Scary - that is why I do not / will not use CP.
Herb

CP didn't cause this problem. Even after wrapping with no CP and no finish, the guides shouldn't be easy to pull out. I have rods where the wraps are only finished with CP and you can't pull the guides out without breaking something.

You've got a problem with thread tension.

.............

Hello,

If every guide pulled off that easily I would try adding a bit more tension on the thread. With just bare thread it should still take some effort to adjust a guide, and a little more to rip the foot completely out from under the wraps. Another thought…could the tension adjustment you are using have accidentally loosened? I once bumped the tensioning wing-nut on the thread carriage with my forearm while wrapping and had to go back and re-do the guide. Was wondering why my tag-ends had suddenly gotten super easy to pull through.

chad

TRy the forhan locking wrap, combined with tinkering with your tension. I do not believe that putting CP in the tunnels do anything at all to stabilize the guide. I do believe that CP on guide wraps donot hold the guides in place as well as straight epoxy. In either case the guide shouldn't be easy to pull out the way you posted.

The thread holds the guides As Tom said
Try more tension Scoffing the guide foot with 220 - 320 sandpaper for a little grip
And
Forhan locking wrap

Bill - willierods.com

Your thread tension is inadequate, and use a Forhan or similar locking wrap.

It sounds like you may need to double or triple your thread tension.
With normal sized spinning or casting guides there is little reason to use a locking wrap.
CP certainly penetrates the thread and when finish is applied, the finish does not penetrate the thread nearly as much as if no CP were applied to the thread.

Just do your self a favor, take one of those guides that you have had trouble with and do a test wrap on an old blank or similar. Do this just to test to see if the new blank finish is part of the problem.

Also, do a test wrap on the new blank using some different tension. Adjust the tension so that you can just barely move and or adjust the guide.

What thread are you using for the wraps.

What is the tension device that you are using when you are doing the wrap.

Be safe

Several effective methods to make single-foot guides more durable have been described, but the fact remains that single-foot guides are inherently less durable than double-foot guides. Anglers and customers should consider this fact before selecting a guide train for a rod.

Thanks guys, I will increase the tension, I wonder if temp had a little to do with it also. I moved my set up to the basement and temps are much cooler down there. I closed off the heat vent and did not plug in the little space heater I use when finishing because the last rod I finished down there had a lot of dust/dirt in the finish. I had the heat up when I warped and used the cp, but it was much colder when I applied the epoxy(10-15 degrees) to this rod. The tension may have been a little light but I don't think it was off 2-3 times what it should have been, when I aligned the guides prior to adding cp they did not seem sloppy? The test this time will be more tension, consistent temperature, Forhan lock and no cp. I will let you know how it does this time, thanks again

If they all just pulled out It must have been Very Light

Bill - willierods.com

Again, CP isn't the problem, nor is the temperature.

When you wrap the guides, there should be enough thread tension so that the guides are snug enough that it requires some bit of effort to shift or move them. If you can easily push them around, you don't have enough thread tension.

..........

G'Day Chad I agree with the not enough tension group .My wrapping is set at 101 grams (that is when the spool just starts to revolve & I never have any problems with loose guides .As I move closer to the tip I will increase the tension slightly to compensate for the greater flex in the tip area .As I use magnetic tensioners it is very easy for me to be very precise with my adjustments .Hope this has been of some help.

Regards Baz

Bundeena
NSW Australia

Barry Chapman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> G'Day Chad I agree with the not enough tension
> group .My wrapping is set at 101 grams (that is
> when the spool just starts to revolve & I never
> have any problems with loose guides .As I move
> closer to the tip I will increase the tension
> slightly to compensate for the greater flex in the
> tip area .As I use magnetic tensioners it is very
> easy for me to be very precise with my adjustments
> .Hope this has been of some help.

Hi Barry,

Not to question your experience and knowledge, but are sure you increase the tension as you move closer to the tip? I back off on the tension as I work on the tip section.

Chester

May your line be tight and your beverages be cold!

When I read the title of this thread, I immediately wondered if it was a micro wave guide. I've built a ton of spinning rods, but I found that the microwave stripper guide sometimes pulls out much easier than other guides. I had one come loose even with the forehan locking wrap. Never had a problem before, but I've recently had 3 microwave stripper guides come loose since I started using them. I wondered if others noticed this. I think it may be that the guide foot is maybe a little too tapered? I found that wrapping with a lot more tension than normal on the stripper guide helps, and I also tried filing the top of the guide foot a little flatter. I like the guides, but I think maybe the feet could be designed a little
better. I wonder if anyone's tried pulling on different guides wrapped at the same tension to see if these guides do indeed come out easier? I don't have any extras or I'd report back.

To be more clear and following the post by Rich, the stripper and second guide pulled out the easiest, I simply decided to put pressure on all after those came out so easily. Of the remaining 7 guides 2 pulled out fairly easily and the remainders pulled out but required more pressure. I will defiantly add more tension, but I didn't think tension alone was the sole issue, light on tension possibly, loose no. It felt to me like the combination of the smooth slick finish of the blank in combination with the guides, thread tension and possibly the cp all contributed to this?? I just wanted to see if anyone else had seen this before with this similar set up. I have built on RX8 blanks before, I have used microwave guides before(1st time with tidal wave titaniums) and have used cp before, just not all in combination.