I have a customer that is looking for something a little different from the trolling rods I normally build. I think I have an idea as to what blanks might be candidates, but I thought I would put the question out there as I might be overlooking something. I don’t normally build rods quite like what he’s looking for.

This will be a rather unusual freshwater downrigger trolling rod. While he targets Great Lakes trout and salmon from 3-35lb. aboard a full-time charter boat, the rod must be just 6’6” in length, one-piece, and will be configured with a 10” full rear grip and 5” front (a fairly long handle configuration for a rod this short). The reel will be a Penn International 975 series, so cost is a lesser concern for this particular customer.

The blank must be very durable as it will be fully loaded 1500+ hours a year, and must last year after year. The blank needs to withstand some of his inexperienced customers “high sticking” the rod when fish are brought to net - bending it well beyond 90 degrees despite his coaching not to do so. I’ll be building it as a spiral.

It should also be “lively and responsive”, more so than the traditional fiberglass or composite blank I would initially consider; something in full graphite.

He seems to prefer a fast action rod. He wants the rod to have a powerful butt to help steer a large fish to net, yet a delicate compliant tip. The last couple of inches of the blank, between the tip and last runner, should point straight at the fish with the reel’s drag set to slip at 3.5lb. I’m thinking maybe a blank with a quick taper, once past the stiffer butt section, might be in order?

He wants to use 12lb test Stren as his main line without a leader. Lastly, the blank must be made in the USA.

I sort of get the idea he wants to have a bass rod experience for his light-line salmon customers. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Your customer has some conflicting requirements so it's going to take some discussions with him.

If he wants a rod that will withstand some customer abuse, but use only 12 lb line on fish up to 35 lbs, a fast graphite rod would cause a lot of break-offs. With a drag set at 3.5lbs, your best solution is going to be glass or at least composite. I would look at some of the Lamiglas inshore TriFlex blanks or something from seeker in their light salt water blanks. All the "normal" salmon and steelhead downrigger blanks are 9-10 feet in length and multi-piece with very moderate action. Curious as to why he wants such a short rod on a downrigger but it's probably a position in the boat he wants to use it in.

Terry

Look at the Super Seeker blanks. They are a composite and have the action you are looking for. The Inshore, Blue lightening blanks, wouldl also be a good choice.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2014 02:03PM by Jim Upton.

I second the Seeker Blanks. I am using the SS-CLBF706 on my charter boat. It's a little bigger than what you want 12-20 lb, but it is a beast as far as power in the handle and fast action in the tip that is sensitive.. You could drop down to the SS-CLBF704 10-15 lb. I am a fan of the Seeker blanks. Made in the USA!

Boston, MA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2014 02:40PM by Rob Savino.

Terry,

Your thoughts pretty much parallel mine. This guys has a few of my noodle rods and he does run a few ultra-light charters and is trying to introduce some of his existing repeat clientèle to the idea, and to somewhat differentiate his charter service from others. He sees this rod as something to bridge his clients from the more traditional gear into the lighter lines. While his noodle rod trips are noodle exclusive, this rod would be something he would integrate into a normal charter. he wants to have a talking point about his light line trips once they have some success landing fish on some medium weight gear. He's been using some fast action long handle walleye rods in the 3/8-1oz lure range, trying some at 6', 6'6", and 7' to determine what could integrate with the rest of his program of 8-14 rods trolled at a time (he's allowed 3 rods per person).

Jim and Rob,

My first thought after our initial phone conversation was, inexperienced customers and high sticking salmon on a short rod... really? I started to look over some of the light saltwater and inshore blanks and I saw the SS-CLBF704 thinking it could be trimmed to 6'6". Then we met and he showed me the rods he was using and described what he was trying to do and how they would integrate into the rest of his gear and he couldn't make the mental leap from the listed butt diameter so we're sort of stalled as I don't ever carry this sort of blank in my more traditional inventory.

And I was going to suggest the garfighter 700XL cut down.....basically a 12-25# rated composite live bait blank made by seeker. Batson has something just about the same that is close to half the price. I could provide pictures of it being tested to failure.....tip brought all the way back to the butt at (IIRC) 19 pounds.

Agree on the "conflicting" requirements.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Down rigger anglers are not particularly interested in fighting fish with the rod. They want to get the fish in the boat. The rod serves little purpose other than holding the line away from the gunwales where it can be clipped into the down rigger cable. The rod has nothing to do with detecting the hit or setting the hook. A solid E-glass blank is perfect for down rigger fishermen.

John I ws going to say the 704 as well. Keep in mind if you are trimming the blank form teh back you're goign to knock 8" off that blank to get to 6'6, so the butt diameter will be less, and you're going to cover it with grip material anyhow so it's not going to be noticeable.

IMO, when people have all these requests and they want something that is all over the place and then they get picky on teh blank diameter - I would stop wasting my time because youve probably spent mroe time on this order than you are going to spend actually building it. SInce he doesnt' have too much of a choice since what he wants doesn't exist, if you jsut say look this is what I can do adn tht's it - he has no other choice and will have to do what you say, or never find what doesn't exist anyway. It's not like he can go to another builder or buy a factory rod, so instead of gettting him exactly waht he wants, get him what will work for what he is doing and if that's not good enough then he'll have to keep not using what he wants. < how's that for a confusing paragraph

You go Billy !!!!

I was thinking of one of the Hercules blanks ??

Bill - willierods.com

When I was in the Great Lakes some of the Ontario anglers were messing with rods that size and 7 ft downrigger rods. Might be some info on the web about it.

Billy and others,

I've been feeling what you described for sure, but since this is a guy I've made a bunch of rods for over the years, I really wanted to go the extra effort to try and meet his needs as best I could. As you know, I've been working from NOS for a long time and don't have a strong grasp of the new stuff that's out there, so that's what prompted my post.

Billy, do you have a 704 in stock? If so, I wonder if you could give me a diameter measured 6'6" from the tip, and a second measurement 20" above that where the blank would be exposed in front of the front grip. With that info, I might be better able to make a case for the 704 if I could show him what the blank size would actually look like.

I probably confused him when I was describing something with a more forward rapid taper where the dec wrap and handle area of the blank would retain more of the overall blank diameter than something with a more progressive taper that we tend to use up here - i think he looked at that butt diameter and imagined a 3/4 blank coming out the front of the grip and just couldn't equate that to giving his customers a mid-light line experience. In his mind, it's a huge visual jump from the large diameter e-glass blanks he's using and the G. Loomis noodles on his light line trips. I think if I can show him something that visually bridges somewhere in between, will be as tough as nails, and at least somewhat more lively, I can close the deal.

And Billy, your right, I already have more time into this, between researching blanks and talking with him, than it will actually take to build the rods... this one is proving to be a real time sink and any profit I recover from the actual build basically will just cover my time already invested in it. I'm sort of glad that this will be just a basic build that once started will be finished quickly.

Phil,

This guy is running a mixed set of Fenwick and Lamiglas E-glass rods I made for him a while back (and a few ugly stik). He's really looking for a departure from that type of experience for his customers with something more lively in the hand.

Russell Brunt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And I was going to suggest the garfighter 700XL
> cut down.....basically a 12-25# rated composite
> live bait blank made by seeker. Batson has
> something just about the same that is close to
> half the price. I could provide pictures of it
> being tested to failure.....tip brought all the
> way back to the butt at (IIRC) 19 pounds.
>
> Agree on the "conflicting" requirements.

Russel,
The Garfighter is a Calstar not a Seeker, isn't it? I've seen a few line weight ratings on that blank, 12-25, 15-20, so have been a little hesitant to consider it, especially since this style of blank is pretty foreign to me.

Is there a reason you suggested the 700-XL but not the GX-7? On paper looking at the stats it seems like it might be a candidate too.

You are right...calstar. I only spoke up after others had mentioned something as I know nothing about that type of fishing (keep that in mind). I do have the 8 foot (rclb) version and would consider it a good match with that reel (but I fish 15-17# class on mine). I also feel it could handle the durable part of the equation. The Batson equivilant is the rclb series. Light in the tip, strong (and fat) in the butt, soft enough tip to protect live bait during casting. A bit like what I'd imagine an older glass hot shot blank would be. Not quite as quick a lock up as today's graphite hot shot blanks, with a little more parabolic nature, and capable of taking more high sticking abuse.

Seems calstar makes a 700xl an 700xl-h. One is rated 10-25# and the other 15-25#. They offer that series in 6', 7', 8', and 9' so lots of choices....extend or cut down.

Just something to consider. Don't waste much time looking at it as I certainly haven't used mine in the great lakes on a downrigger. All that said, if guys wouldn't have suggested off the wall things to me I'd have never tried a seatrout blank for peacock bass and a steelhead blank for dolphin. Besides, us rodbuilders need excuses to try out something different and expand our personal database. FWIW the rainshadow rclb 70xl will only set you back like 30 bucks to try so it won't hurt much to find out what a live bait blank is like.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.