it's been a week since i apllied my thread finish and its still a touch tacky.any ideas on how to fix or a reason as to why,i mixed same amounts.

IF you mixed same amounts and mixed long enough It should have ben dry to the touch about 5 hours ???

A lot say a Correctly mixed coat on top will fix

Bill - willierods.com

Hi Lee,
I'll support Bill and say that you either had a problem with measuring or you didn't mix it properly. There is enough difference in the lines on the syringes to give you a problem if you don't use the exact same method for both parts. Doesn't matter what brand of finish you used but if your amounts where slightly off or it wasn't thoroughly mixed then it probably won't ever go off completely. Some time in a higher temperature may get it to go off more but not completely.
Another proper coat should solve the issue but it may always be tacky underneath.
Your not the first and definitely won't be the last to have that problem, most builders have been there!!

ESFNEM Col
Port Kembla, NSW
Australia

As stated, I'd apply a properly measured/mixed coat over the top and call it finished.

Now...on to the more important part of this question...how to solve this so it doesn't happen to you again.

Lee, could you quickly explain how you measure and how you mix the resin and hardener? Maybe that will allow comments on how to help you with the big picture. A single rod is easy to fix...the next 50 will be a headache if this situation persists.

Jay

Always mix at least 3ccs of each component part in order to allow yourself some reasonable margin for error. Mix slowing for at least 3 or 4 minutes. Generally, these steps will ensure that your epoxy will set as designed.

.............

One thing that most people who are new to using syringes don't realize is that there is air in the tip end of the syringe. When you draw up your part A or B you need to expel this air by drawing the plunger back and carefully and slowly pushing the plunger forward with the tip sticking straight up in the air. When the air is expelled check the level of the epoxy in both syringes to make sure they are exactly equal. If you do this you should have no more problems if you mix until the epoxy is clear and not cloudy.

One other thing, if the epoxy is still tacky, there is no need to scuff it up prior to putting on a second coat. You will just mess it up more.

used syringes for proper amounts but may have mixed to fast and used a popsicle stick this time to mix it

Hello Lee:
I realize this message does not fully follow your post, but I have had such bad luck with the problems of mixing and using two part epoxy thread mixes that I have used Helmsman Minwax spar varnish on my last few rods. I know it changes the color of the wrap a little, but it gives it a warm old look that I like. I put eight coats on each wrap, but that is that not that bad because there is a four hour waiting time between each coat so you can easily do four coats a day. You should go light on each coat and not glob it on like the epoxy.
Another aspect of using spar varnish it that you can inspect the progress of each wrap and remove imperfections or flaws by lightly sanding. I use one of my wife's fine finger nail files.
I hope this helps.
Cordially,
David

David, I don't mean to be disparaging, but you and your spar varnish on current rod blanks other than bamboo are about 40 some years in the past. Current finishes are so far superior to varnish, that it is almost ridiculous. I used Gudebrod rod varnish for a couple of years before I came up with a 2 part finish (well before Gene Bullard or Ralph O'Quinn developed their two part finishes). Both contacted me to find out how I got such a clear, see through finish on my rods. Time to come into the 21st century, and learn to use products that will make your rods stand out!!

Randolph:
If you did not mean to be disparaging, I would hate to read a post of yours when you did. How about some courtesy and respect?
To each their own.
David Christian

David is saying that Spar Varnish on fiberglass, composite, and graphite blanks is 40 years is the past is disparaging, then I guess I am guilty. I used it or the equivalent for about three years until I came up with something so far superior that there are about t0 different versions of it on the market today. I have respect for you and your choice. That is up to you. But in my opinion it is not the best choice you could have made. No offense intended.

No offense taken. However, just to let the other readers know I am not totally wet or archaic, I quote from Fly Rod Building by Art Scheck 2002 (note in the 21st century) pp "An excellent one-part finish was brought to my attention by some bloke who had no use for color preserver. It's Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane, a modern version of spar varnish. . . . (it) does have a few disadvantages. It has a pronounced amber cast, which means each successive coat makes the wrap beneath it look slightly darker. . . . (b)ut Minwax Spar Urethane makes a dandy, very durable finish."
David Christian

Sorry, I omitted the page numbers, they are 160 and 161.
David Christian

David, I am archaic but the only time I am wet is by accident. :>)

I'm relatively new to rod making. Being an engineer that has worked with many epoxies over the years in my career I knew when I started rod building I would want a digital scale accurate in sub-gram increments. I agree with the posts... lines are lines on syringes, general guides. Epoxy can be a fussy material, so I put my cup on the scale, tare the weight of the cup, and add equal weights of hardener and epoxy, and use a motorized mixer with a stainless steel ball bearing to eliminate bubbles. It's really the only accurate way to measure. I have not had a tacky finish ever, including rod building, using this method.

Gregg, does 3 ML of hardener equal 3ML of resin in weight?

Randolph Ruwe Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gregg, does 3 ML of hardener equal 3ML of resin in
> weight?

Not exactly... the viscosities are not the same. They're very close depending on the brand. My point was more about being able to accurately judge 3mL in a syringe because of the miniscus. Ever notice how water in a clear glass rides up on the glass wall because of surface tension? The same thing happens in a syringe for a liquid, more so because the small diameter of the syringe. It's hard to tell exactly if the epoxy is level in a syringe, even holding it precisely vertical. Weighing is less error prone, and the inaccuracy of weight due to the difference in density of the two materials is negligible for the very small quantities of epoxy we use.

Gregg, I was probably the first person in the country to use syringes for measuring two part finishes. I was a Paramedic on Medic one in Seattle for 29 years. When Ralph O'Quinn of Trondak , saw me using syringes to measure the two part finish I used, he went out and bought about 1000. Trouble was they were the wrong configuration!! They had a long hook shaped tip with too fine of an opening. He had me test them and I showed him how difficult it was to draw up the resin and hardener as well as getting equal amounts. Ralph was the first commercial producer of epoxy to provide syringes with his finish. Some of the current syringes that are provided with finishes for some reason have a stop in them that only allows the syringe to be drawn back to the 3cc mark, you can't draw back any further so as to push the plunger up to expel air and make sure you have exactly 3ml/cc of each. I don't understand the reasoning behind this.

I would much rather use syringes, and be able to do it accurately than weigh the finish when there are unequal amounts by weight. I have never had a problem with my procedure or the results.

Greg,
Just remember, do your research on the particular product being used.

Some epoxies need to be mixed with equal volume, but other epoxies need to be mixed by equal weight.

Don't make the mistake of using an epoxy that needs to be measured with equal volume, but measure it with equal weight.

If you do desire to use a scale, then contact the manufacturer to find the conversion factor for using weight rather than volume.

The converse is also true. i.e. if you use an epoxy is designed to be used with equal weight, do not use equal volume; unless you contact the manufacturer to find the conversion factor.

Greg,
One of the really big reasons that I like to use syringes, is that
a. There is no clean up required of the syringes. Just wipe off the outside of the syringe, after emptying the syringe, and put back into your syringe holder.
b. There is nearly no waste with a syringe, as compared to using a spoon or other device to transfer epoxy from the epoxy container to the scale and back to the mixer.
c. Also, for most of today's rod guide finishes, they are shipped with an equal volume required for a good mix, with no conversion. So, by using the syringes, very easy to put the tip of the syringe into the epoxy container, pull out the desired amount of part a, and the other syringe to pull out an equal part of b. Then expel the epoxy into your mixing cup. then return the syringes to their respective syringe holders.
With a syringe, it is easy to mix 1 cc of mix for finishing a single guide that is measured accurately and cures well. Much more difficult to measure such small quantities wihthout wasting a cc or more of material from the transfer method being used.


Be safe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2013 05:18PM by roger wilson.