About 3 weeks ago I built a rod for a friend. Yesterday he sent me a picture of the decorative wrap that shows a clean break in the epoxy all the way around the rod and both sections of epoxy separated by about 1/8 inch. The rod finish underneath appears to be undamaged. The break in the epoxy is directly over the point where two colors of thread meet. I hate to assume, but I can't help but think this is a problem caused by shrinkage. Any idea as to what may have caused this and how to prevent it in the future?

William,
Take the rod back , put another coat of finish on the rod and all will be well. The new coat will fill the gap and you will never tell the difference. Keep an eye on the drying epoxy, and if the finish settles in the gap, just add a touch more to even the flow, - give it a touch of heat to blend it and it will be in good shape.

Be safe

Roger

Why did it crack if it cracked once fill it up it may just crack again I would not think it was cause of the thread

Bill - willierods.com

There is a post in the archives here about this, and pics in teh photo gallery. There is a lot of tension in a Dec WRAp, the tie off that you did didn't have enough tension or was too short and teh threads in teh Dec WRap slipped which is what caused the epoxy to do that. I'll try to find the old posts for you

I stand corrected
Thanks Billy

Bill - willierods.com

I looked but cannot find it. I have several wraps on my keychain from broken rods. THey were too long so I cut them at about 4:" in the middle of the wrap, so tehre is one end tied off, and one end that has no tie off on it. After a week you could see teh epoxy wrinkled, and the blank beneath the wrap eas exposed. I was shocked to realize that epoxy doesnt' hold everything in place, but it doesn't. There are pics of this on other websites too, it's a matter of finding them with the search feature. I'll try again

Here we go: [www.stripersonline.com]

In other words...if the thread slipped UNDER the epoxy, then there is no easy fix.

Billy and Jay,
I would expect that would be the case if a wrap had been coated with CP. Basically CP completely fills the thread, so that the epoxy does not really penetrate or anchor any thread. Rather, it simple encapsulates the thread, but doesn't actually adhere the thread.

You might try the same test - but use no CP. I expect then, that you would find that the epoxy had penetrated the thread and actually adhered the thread in place.

Be safe

I have made several thousand decorative butt wraps over the past 43 years, and I have never seen, heard of, or had one of my wraps having this type of problem. I use CP on nearly all of my wraps, so I don't think it can be blamed on that (depending on the brand of CP, I haven't tried some of the new ones, (post 1995). The only shrinkage I ever had was with Gudebrod's nitrocellulose CP about 1972. I had wrapped the butt wrap, probably to tightly and then after applying the CP placed in a sunny window hoping to speed up the drying time. While working on another rod, I heard a loud snap! The drying wrap had crushed the rod blank right in the middle of the butt wrap I had spent several hours making. I never tried that again.

I can only think of one reason for a butt wrap to shrink enough to cause the finish to split, and that is a combination of too much thread tension in the wrap, (not the end wraps) and the application of too much heat in the curing process. Then when the rod is flexed under tension that is when the break or split in the finish would occur. I may be wrong, but that is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Randolph,just click the link and read what I posted. It's the tension combined with lack of tension/too short of a tie off.

I read your post Billy, and too short of a tie off could be the problem, but I think that would only occur if the butt wrap and the holding/end wraps were coated with CP/finish at different times. If CP was applied to the entire wrap and end wraps at the same time, or if no CP was used and just finish, I can see no reason that there should be any separation. Like I said, I have never seen it in several thousand rods I have made. Someone can enlightened me further. I love to learn new things about rod building.

I saw the pictures on the other site and the top two wraps look exactly like the effect that resulted on the wrap that I made. I can confirm that the end wraps could probably have been tighter. I was working under the presumption that as long as the thread was tight enough to stay packed close together that you had adequate tension on the thread.

What exactly do you mean by "too short of a tie off"? Are you saying the end of the thread at the conclusion of the wrap needs to be tucked back further under the wrap? Bear with me, I'm pretty new to this and have only made 6 rods since I started about a year ago and this most recent rod was my first attempt at a pretty remedial cross wrap.

In addition to that post with the photos, that builder had at least one other wrap do the same thing that I saw first hand, and I heard of another complaint. I've seen it a few times from other builders as well, and I thin there was a photo posted here a while back - it is not common but it definitely happens.

TOo short a tie off - I'm not 100% sure what causes it, because I do not know the exact procedure tha twas used. I know what mykeychain wraps did when I cut them in half so I know the thread tension from teh wrap is very strong. I know that if the tie off is not strong enough it will not hold in place, and this split can occur. SO when I say too short a tie off...if you cut all the threads and bury them under a 1/2" tie off wrap, you might want to lengthen the tie off wrap. YOu ant the tie off thread to grab the blank gradually through the wrap threads (I hope that makes sensE). If you only give yourself a 1/2" teh tie off will not grab the blank and this can occur.

The CP probably has somethign to do with it, and since 99% of people doing DEc WRaps use CP, jus tread my posts here and in the link to figure out how to prevent it.

There are a couple of things that I do on all of my decorative wraps that may be what prevents this separation from occurring on my rods. I start my retaining/end wrap for about 1/2", put a piece of painters tape on it before completion to hold it in place, then I feather/taper cut the thread in the decorative wrap, slicing parallel to the blank. This thins the end of the dec. wrap and allows a smooth end wrap. I measured the end wraps on a dozen rods just now and the shortest end wrap was 3/4", and that was on very simple spiral wrap, the average was about and inch and a quarter. I always us CP, and apply it to all the wraps on the rod at the same time, then the finish the same way. I don't know if this would make a difference to you, but it has worked for me for many years.

Scary that I did this over 10 years ago after I was building for only 3 years. I don't do things exactly like this any more, but it still works perfectly.

Billy, what part did you do 10 years ago?

THank you for the heads up, I forgot to include the link: [www.visualwrap.com]

Billy I didn't see or maybe understand what you are referring to in that link. What are you talking about?

Geez!! I copied and pasted teh wrong address. HEre's teh correct link, hopefully for the last time: [visualweave.com]