Anyone had issues with Microwave Guides and Wind Knots? Especially light braid.

I filled my reel with 10# Power Pro Super Slick and was throwing a 1/4 oz jig heads w/ 3'' Gulp Shrimp and had to go to a rod with heavier braid (power pro 20#) to stop the knots.

Diff rod was not MicroWave so I am not sure if it was the line or the guide that caused the problem. Anyone else use light braid on their Microwave?

Haven't had a chance to test again so may have actually been the wind :)

Thanks Don and Bill for your replies from other thread.

J Scott
Englewood, Fl

I was out yesterday in a stiff wind.
My partners using both light and heavy braid and cone-of-flight rods had wind knot problems all day.
I, on the other hand, using three Microwave rods and light braid had none.
One would assume that MW guides would eliminate line coils in the air, reducing the chance of wind knots.
Could your problem have been excessive line twist?

First time out after spooling the reel. the only twist could have come from the spooling process which I don't believe would be enough to cause a problem with braid.

J Scott
Englewood, Fl

Check your reel spool to the stripper distance. Its important that it not exceed the recommended 19 1/2".

If you think it is line twist

Take the line out of the guides Pull of about 40 feet off Hold the line in a gloved hand or rag or carefully in bare hand Get it back on the spool

If that does not work put a swivel on the end of the braid and mono leader after
I use 4 lb braid with swivel and mono leader No MW guides just single foot

Bill - willierods.com

Jim, I will double check the distance, I am pretty sure I have it set up correctly per the AT website.

Bill, Next time out I will let 50yds or so out behind the boat to remove any twist. Swivel is a big NoNo here. The redfish don't care for them. Straight braid to fluoro leader connection.

Thanks for the comments.

Is that buy law Or the other fisherman tell you so -- LOL

Bill - willierods.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2013 10:43AM by bill boettcher.

I don't know about microwave guides, but I do know that the Fuji K series guides were designed to eliminate wind knots and they do an excellent job at eliminating wind knots.

Be safe

If you are trolling for these reds the bate could very well be turning in the water and putting a heck of a twist in the line

And if you think the fish are seeing the swivel - Put it some place where they can not Ty it in the line higher or in the leader ???

Bill - willierods.com

The Microwave is built on a 30 year old "Y" frame copy. There is no technology there to prevent wind knots. Some people seem to have them, some don't. Wind knots are a crosswind phenomenon, so distance to the stripper can be a factor, especially with old style guides.

Bill, you typically don't troll for drum.

Any time that someone has had a problem with "wind Knots" I have taken their rod and reel and put a one ounce weight on a swivel at the end of the line and walked the rod backwards in a nearby football field and then reeled it back in. Takes the twist of the line out and no more loops or what some call wind knots. Spooling line onto a spinning reel so that this does not happen takes a little practice.

I think we may be talking about two different things when referencing wind knots.

The first is where I believe the “wind knots” that many refer to may actually stem from loose line loops on a reel either from a loop or line twist. When casted, they come off the spool in a mess that generally stops at the stripper guide in a knot. Doug Hannon was familiar with tackling this issue with his reel spool design. He also had specific theories for how the MicroWave design helps prevent the knot from tightening up and allowing the mess to pass through the guides. He demonstrated it through his testing for us, which makes total sense and I must say that I experience far fewer issues than ever before. It also helps accumulate fewer loose line loops by the MWG’s putting line on the spool tighter as it is retrieved passing through the stripper guide.

The second could be confusion with the Fuji “cross-wind” demo where multiple turbo fans blow a loop of line around a frame when casting - theory. In actual fishing conditions I can see where once the line slows down it can be blown wildly however it isn’t moving forward at the extreme rate at this point. Possibly a large ring guide placed too far away from the reel creating larger loops in a HEAVY wind might see an issue but it would have to be the perfect storm, if you fish in storms.

To the latter, I must say that casting braid through the MWG’s thousands upon thousands of times, at the beach, offshore and in adverse weather conditions, I have never once had a loop wrap around the frame of the MWG elevated A-Frame style stripper guide.

As for the, “Microwave is built on a 30 year old "Y" frame copy. There is no technology there…” comment, I do not believe 30 years ago there was a “Y” frame, with the:

Taller ring location
Lateral Strut
Ring Lock (primary ring) frame
Patented MicroWave concentric ring configuration

If it had this 30 years ago, it should have been marketed better because they work really, really well….

Best Regards,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Darrin, I think you are right on target. To me it is a matter of the line not being spooled correctly and causing line twist which being reeled in causes the loops.

Sorry, I should have said it's a "Y" frame copy with a lateral strut, ring locked large ring (Fuji's original deep pressed innovation) and NOT ring locked small ring that is slightly taller than its predecessor. I apologize for the misrepresentation.
Wind knots are real and they occur early in the cast (not late) when the speed of the line overruns the stripper in a crosswind of moderate speed. This usually occurs when the stripper ring is too small and cannot handle the line speed.
I'm not sure how the Y frame was marketed, but the millions and millions and millions that have been used over the past 30 years seem to indicate that it didn't need a lot of doo-dads to be successful.

Hi Jim,

If you are going to be precise, the Y frame came along in 1992 per the Fuji chart of their self-proclaimed innovation history. I read it on the on the back of Angling International. It’s the August edition with the current “voted” Innovation of the Year (MicroWave Guides) award on the cover. Which make the Y frames roughly 21 years old but you should know this working for Angler’s Resource the US Fuji Distributor.

The Ring Lock or even the frame style, has now been improved with what American Tackle has created. Much like Fuji did with their insert guides decades ago. They were not the first (although they claimed to be, until proven otherwise) to use an insert in a metal guide frame but in my opinion they improved on what was previously done. Much like we’ve done with our “doo-dads”. The model T was hugely successful at one time too....

Respectfully,

Darrin Heim
American Tackle Company

Now kids lets play nice.

My issue according to Darrin's description is the loose line looping into a knot and then getting hung up in the ring, not a loose line wrapping around the ring. The lure in question is a jig so there is a lot of pulling, letting sink reeling etc. that can cause loose line on the spool. I believe now that my issue is just a fact of life in breezy conditions with 10# or less braid. Since no one else has had an issue I can reasonably accept that this is my issue and not a guide issue. I don't believe it is line twist due to the fact it is new line. For those unfamiliar with Super slick it is very very limp and I can't see just by winding it onto the spool that that would enough to cause line twist.. I will follow a few of the tips suggested and see what happens next time out.

J Scott
Englewood, Fl

Oops, fact check on the "Y" Frame. My mistake. I have a shorter history with FUJI than the rest of the guys here. The Model T really was a huge success, I think it was popular about the time Cone of Flight was developed. You can check that date...if you want to.
Seriously Darrin, congratulations on the award, you guys have done a great job.

Jim, lay the line out on grass, or if you are fishing from a boat, let the line out nearly all the way, then reel it back on the spool with just a slight tension and the line will come off the spool like it should. I have never seen a wind knot, just twisted and loose line that causes this problem.

Jim,
It is possible that you have line twist, but it may not be apparent because the line is a braid.

The next time you are out in the boat, take all terminal tackle off your line, and as you drive along the lake at a fast idle, let all of the line off your reel. Then, drive along for a an additional 1/8th of a mile or so, while dragging the line in the water.

Then, stop the boat, and reel the line back on the rod, You really can just let the pressure from the line dragging in the water to give you the right tension on the rod.

By the way, just because the line is new absolutely does not mean that the line has twists in it.

If the line was put on by a fishing or sporting goods shop, where the reel was put on a machine and then the spool was filled by spinning the spool, it is virtually certain that you will have twists in the line after a day of fishing.

The reason is very simple. If the line goes on the spool in a straight line coming off a filler spool, it will not have any twists in it per sa. But as soon as you begin to cast, the line will begin to twist.

Now, in contrast, if a spinning reel is filled from the SIDE of a filler spool, so that the line comes off the filler spool in loops and gets put back on the spool in the same direction loops, then you will be able to fish for a long time with no loops or twists forming in the line

I am virtually certain of this. I built a line winder machine that was a virtual copy of the commercial fishing line winders found in fishing and sporting goods shops. I filled many of both my spools, as well as many of my friends, and virtually every one of use complained of severe line twists after a day or two of fishing.

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But, then, when I stopped using the line winding machine, and filled the reels from filler spools that were on their side, checking for line twist frequently and reversing the spool, if any twists occurred follow up use of the reels never displayed any tendency for line twist.

But, in virtually every case, when I had filled a reel with either a commercial line filler machine or the one that I had made and had twists - it was easily solved by dragging the line in the water with no terminal tackle on the line.

So, now; if there is even the slightest doubt about the way that the reel was loaded with line, I will strip the line and trail the line behind the boat for a ways with no terminal tackle on the way out to the first fishing spot. It works every time.

So, you might try the line untwister method with your reel and line on your microwave rod and see if you still have the issue.

Be safe