Last year I bought some Flex Coat and it was crystal clear. Small bottles, used them up in a couple months. Just got ready for some new builds and ordered more Flex Coat. This time one of the bottles has material that is dark, sort of yellow brown. Has the company changed formulas? Hate to use a epoxy that is already yellow.

All epoxies will turn amber or yellow over time, both in the bottle and on the rod. That the epoxy you got last year was probably very fresh, perhaps from a dealer that turns a lot of it over, or perhaps they had just received a new shipment from Flex Coat. Conversely, what you got this year has been sitting on somebody's shelf for a awhile. But there's nothing at all wrong with it.

This isn't unique to Flex Coat, it's the nature of the epoxy product. One thing many people don't know, is that UV inhibitors are themselves slightly yellow in color. Sometimes the epoxy you see that is perfectly clear at the outset, is going to turn amber or yellow more so than some others that start out a little bit yellow to begin with, precisely because of the fact that they contain no UV inhibitors. Epoxies sold for interior craft use are often perfectly clear (when they're fresh) but will quickly turn once exposed to sunlight or as they begin to age.

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Frank,
If you haven't used the bottle for a bit, remove the top and put the bottles in a microwave for a few seconds. This will heat the fluid, remove any crystals and will also thin the mix for easy application.

A bit of yellowing is normal for any epoxy and is not noticable on a rod unless you have it over white wraps.

Be safe

A couple of years back there two or three companies were doing epoxy "tests" to prove their product was the clearest. They would mix up a little and pour a bit of it onto a glass plate. So you had a series of round samples to look at. The funny thing was that each company that did this had their epoxy being the clearest. It wasn't hard to figure out that all any of them had to do was make sure that when they did the test they made sure their product was new and fresh, and all the other samples came from older stock. You can probably still find some of these "tests" on the photo page.

You should NEVER!! microwave the hardener!!! Check with Ralph O'Quinn on that.

Ken,

We made sure that all the epoxies we tested against ProKote for our independent lab test were from new/fresh bottles to avoid such claims.

Yes all epoxy with yellow in time, but the fact is not all yellow at the same rate – some yellow much, much, much faster than others. If it’s yellow in the bottle, it’s yellow on the rod. We have found (and tested) ProKote to be one of the best at not yellowing.

When designing ProKote we wanted to make the "best" epoxy finish (what constitutes best is subjective), but in our opinion the best epoxy - easy to draw in a syringe, mixes well & bubble free, applies/soaks well to the threads, release bubbles, self-levels, cures without bubbles, remains flexible to avoid guide foot checking, does not yellow, does not chip or scuff when in use, has a reasonable shelf life, is packaged for the end user. Through much in house trial and error, consulting with epoxy manufacturers, chemists, field use and classroom use we had a formula for ProKote we thought fit our idea of “best” (yes we UV tested in house on the roof in the Florida sun against other brands).

The original ProKote was a “medium” build to achieve the working time and flexibility we thought was “best”. Many customers loved the finish but wanted something that set up faster and thicker, so we formulated a “high build” version of ProKote. Both have outstanding UV non yellow properties.

Once we felt we had the right formula, we shipped off bottles of ProKote and every other vendors epoxy to an independent lab for testing (we actually removed all bottle labels so the laboratory would not know who’s was who’s – aka a blind test). When the test came back Prokote showed to the “best” at non-yellowing. And this was a large, professional independent laboratory who specialize in UV testing (with a large invoice we would add).

Follow the link below to read more about ProKote & the test results:
[www.proproducts.us]

OR read the below expert from the web site:
In 1,500 hours of weatherometer (WOM) Xenon Arc testing by an independent laboratory, ProKöte™ Rod Finish proved to be the #1 brand of thread finish epoxy for rod builders. Tests for quality and overall coating performance were performed. Controlled laboratory testing proved dramatic superiority over the other brands. Tests on ProKöte™ note a 87% clarity retention compared to the leading manufacturer while UV Yellowing was the lowest of all brands tested. Laboratory Tests note that ProKöte™ Rod Building Finish is 207% better at non-yellowing and 187% better at a 60 degree gloss reflectiveness than the leading brand of rod building finish.

Regards.
Team Mud Hole Custom Tackle
Web: [www.mudhole.com]
Email: sales@mudhole.com
Toll Free Phone #: 1-866-790-RODS (7637)

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And yet when of the other companies "tested" the finishes their finish was clear and Pro Kote was yellow. That's my point. No independent objective third party performed any of these tests. Would you trust a car test that concluded that Fords are better than Chevy's if Ford was the one doing the testing? Or a party that was paid by Ford to do the testing?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2013 05:50PM by Ken Finch.

Ken,

Did you even read the Mudhole response? He said they did an independent blind test, in a lab outside their shop. Does that not constitute an "independent objective third party" or do you just choose not to believe that?

Steve Hartzell
Lake Conroe - Willis, Texas

I guess you didn't bother to read my response. WHO PAID that "independent objective third party" to do the test?

As I recall, another epoxy supplier also had an "independent objective third party" do a test and in that one their finish came out on top. Odd that two independent objective third parties did not come up with the same results!

I'm not trying to trash anybody's finish, just to point out that these "tests" aren't what they might appear to be.

Randy,
Why no finish in the microwave?

I do it all of the time. I do the same thing for 2 part epoxy that has gotten a bit on the thick side.

I typically "nuke" it for 10-15 seconds - depending on the size container and it works very well to take care of finish or epoxy that has gotten thick or crystallized.

Certainly, I don't leave it in for any longer than that at a time for fear that it could "cook" the glue; but see nothing wrong at all with a few second shot of power.

Be safe

The resin is generally the component that thickens and crystalizes and therefore benefits from the microwave blast. I wouldn't microwave the hardener unless it had been stored in a very cold place and I needed to thin it quickly. The better option is to put it in a room temperature area a few hours prior to using it.

...............

Roger it is OK to nuke the resin, just not the hardner. I learned this from Ralph O'Quinn over 35 years ago. I probably can't explain it as well as he or Tom could.

Ken,

I did read your response. If it's a blind study, it's blind whomever pays for it. I'm a scientist and deal with peoples claims on their ideas every day and I've got enough skepticism in me for a hundred people and still a blind study is blind. I think what you are saying is that you don't believe they did a blind study.

Maybe you and I need to get together and pay for the next "study" then we'll know if it's right.

Steve Hartzell
Lake Conroe - Willis, Texas

I believe two "blind" studies should produce the same result. They did not. Maybe the blind man found whose name was on the check.

Steve, I did plenty of blind studies in the 70's. I tested every finish on the market at that time against the U-40 products. Over 2 years of testing under every outdoor condition here in the Pacific Northwet. I made wraps of every color under the rainbow on white, yellow, black and natural graphite. Hung them on the back yard fence facing south. Rain, snow, sun, wind, you name it. The only epoxy that did not yellow was the U-40 Dura gloss and the Perma Gloss one part finish. I have a couple rods fro 35 years ago on white blanks that I defy any one to see the least yellowing.

Perma Gloss won't yellow - it stays water white clear forever. It's also not an epoxy, just to clarify.

......................

Ken just for your information, no one paid me to do these tests. I did it to find out for myself what was the best. I am currently starting to do tests on all of the current epoxy and one part finishes. No one is paying me. I learned about blind tests as a Paramedic on Medic One in Seattle. We did more blind tests on medicine and medical procedures than any hospital in the world!! Sometimes we had several tests going at the same time, depending on the condition and illness of the patient. I know blind tests upside down and backwards!!

I have to ask

Why are they Blind Tests ???

Bill - willierods.com

A blind test means that the lab that performs the test doesn't know which product is from which manufacturer. The lab is "blind" to which products they are testing and hence can make an objective determination on each product. Overall I think the finishes we have to choose from are all very good.

I commented the way I did because I think we each need to determine what product works best for us as individuals. I believe the manufacturers are all trying to put out the best finish they can. They are motivated by profit, of course, we all are. But they can't make false claims about a lousy product and expect to gain market share.

Steve Hartzell
Lake Conroe - Willis, Texas

And yet they always seem to find the best product just happens to be from the company that commissioned the "test." Seems a bit of a coincidence to me since they supposedly have no idea which product is from which company.

None of them will say that their competitor's product is better than theirs. Every single one of them says their epoxy is clearest, best, whatever. Are they all right? That was my whole point. I don't go by any test result created or published by any manufacturer. I rely on my own eyes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2013 10:42PM by Ken Finch.