I love split grips, but I’ve used Fuji Sk2 split grip reel seats on my last 9 (personal) casting rods and hate them. Thought they’d grow on me once I got used to them, but NOT. Maybe it’s the way that I hold the rod, being left handed. In the past I’ve split Castaway’s and I don’t believe they're available anymore. I’m thinking of splitting ECSM’s (or TCSM’s) or giving Minima’s a try. Weight reduction is an issue (only thing I like about the SK2’s). Also thinking that the TCSM's might be lighter because of less bore material, but there's the challenge of blank/seat exposed gap. Any suggestions?

Fuji SKM "Skeleton Seat"? Bare bones, do anything you want.

Jim, I'm using CASTING rods, need trigger (SK2 trigger too small for me).

Swampland has the phenix split seat.

Jim,

I would go with the ECSM, as you don't have to deal with arbors. If you go with the TCSM, I would glue in the arbor. Then cut and shape. With a little paint, tinted epoxy, or tinted PG over the arbor material (or using wood or acrylic for your arbors), you could add some flair to your grip without adding winding checks, thread etc.

How do you hold the rod? I've never found split seats comfortable because of the way I hold the rod. I hold the rod with 2 fingers in front of the trigger. My hands are just too small to even palm small low profile reels like the Curado 100b comfortably. What works for me is 16mm (with whatever ID is needed) exposed blank seats, and if I need to go larger, I go without the blank exposed. The exposed area becomes too large, and doesn't feel right. Maybe I'm too fussy, but this is what works for me.

Joe

Ricky,
The Phenix looks pretty heavy to me.

Joe,
I have some ECSM’s on order, because as you say, no arbors. I think the disadvantage is the excess material in the bore as opposed to the TCSM, in which the arbor (being much lighter) takes up the same space with less mass. Admittedly, I do obsess about weight (Ha). All my bass rods weigh less than 3 oz. I have an old TCSM that I have split and I’m the process of “sculpturing” to cut out some of the excess mass. I’ll epoxy the bushing in as you suggest, so I think it should look okay. I can even use the WCS (SK2) winding checks on the threaded barrel salvaged from the TCSM body. Just have to ream the barrel I.D. a bit.
I think for most right handers, when they transfer the rod to their left hand, they tend to “palm” the reel as you do. Otherwise it would be awkward to re-grip the rod’s grip at the same location previously held by the right casting hand. At least, that’s my theory, FWIW. For a left hander (myself), there’s no switching, so my grip is pretty much consistent from casting to retrieve. I acknowledge that most guys do palm their reels and whether or not it’s because the majority of people are right-handed, I don’t know. I’d be curious as to whether “palming” would be preferred by many right-handed anglers that are using LEFT-hand reels, where there’s no switching of hands required. It’s always been a mystery to me that a “right-hand” reel is ideally designed for left-handed anglers.One of very, very few advantages of being left handed (Ha).

Jim,
You say, "I love split grips".
But in the next sentence you say, 'but I hate the reel seat that I am using".

Let me ask the simple question -
What do you Love about split grips?

Why do you want a split grip on a rod?

I personally like to fish with a rod and rod handle that is completely effortless for me to use all day long, and frankly, I have 0 interest in using a split grip, because I have never found one that I like. The fact that a split grip happens to weigh 2 grams less is of 0 concern to me. The weight difference, at that point on the rod has 0 effect on the balance.

But, if, for some reason, you love a split grip - by all means make use of it.

That is the wonderment of this great big world, Millions of folks who have millions of different likes and dislikes.

Just curious.

Roger

Roger,
Simple answer: Because 2 grams is of great concern to me. It’s actually more like 11 grams (over .38 oz.), which to me is significant. I also find them comfortable (except for the SK2). I appreciate the reason that you don’t like them. I just don’t care.
And, I said that I hate that particular split grip (SK2). I think most people that like split grips would like it, especially if they “palm” their reel, but it doesn’t work for me (see my reply to Joe).

like Roger has said

If it does not feel good to fish all day
It is not worth it NO MATER WHAT IS IT"S WEIGHT

Find one that fits your hand and is comfotable
Then build the rod around it

Do not go with any FADS just what feels good to YOU

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,
I agree, but I thought I said that I find them comfortable (except for the SK2). I'm glad that you and Roger are in agreement as to split grip “shortcomings”. I just don't care.

I was asking for Split Grip” suggestions, not looking for approval or disapproval of the configuration.

Jim,
Great answer.
By the way, I was answering your split grip question, with respect to my viewpoint. That point was simply that I have not found one that is comfortable for me to use on a day long basis.

If you were to find a split grip that would be comfortable for all day use, please share it, so that I could try it on a rod. Of the many that I have tried, I simply would rather use an alternative reel seat.

Do be safe and do have a wonderful day fishing every day.

Roger

Jim;
I to am left handed and never switch hands.
Don't like the Fuji's!
You will find the ECSM's a bit heavier then other seats, and even though I build rods as light as possible. I use them extensively to make split seats for a few reasons

1. they are denser (harder) which transmits vibrations better improving sensitivity (which is also one of two reasons they weigh more, the other being they are the same diameter all the way through.)

2. the fact that I don't have to use an arbor, means one less type of material that vibrations have to travel through.
Any time vibrations travel through dissimilar materials, some the the vibration is lost, due to bounce back effect ( you will have to ask Emery Harry for the correct word to describe the effect),

3. one less glue joint. (for same reason as stated above)


One other thing to be aware of is that because they are harder, they require more care when cutting or the material gets hot, melting the materials being cut back to itself .

Even though I have been asked to not disclose details.
Batson is coming out with a new casting seat, that for me may end the need to split seats. IMO it is the most comfortable and lightest bait caster seat I've ever had hold of.
regrettably they are not unveiling it until I.C.A.S.T.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/13/2013 05:02PM by Steve Gardner.

You are right Jim the phenix weighed in at 27.1 gr. witch is the same as a fuji acsm. Both were 12.5 mm. on my scales.
Ricky

Roger,
All of my rods with the split Castaways work well for me because of the grip that I use (again, see my reply to Joe).

Steve,
Good points. I have some of the ECSM’s (as well as 1 Minima to evaluate) on order. I liked splitting the Castaways for some of the same reasons you state, but since they seem to be no longer available, gotta try something different. I just finished splitting and “sculpting” a TCSM that I had and I got it about as light as the SK2 (which is its biggest asset, IMO….other than that they’re easy to cut off the blank-ha). The ECSM will be cleaner/easier to split (like the Castaway) because of the fit to the blank (no bush). (The bushing is a PIA.) If I remember right, the ECSM requires a bushing on the front end,so that’ll be a little lighter than the Castaway lock-nut barrel.
I look forward to seeing the Batson R.S.

YOU WANT TO FELL THE FISH BITE
PUT YOR FINGER ON THE LINE - THE LINE GOES TO THE HOOK - THE FISH BITES THE HOOK - or whatever is on it

Too many people WANT TO HAVE TOO MUCH -- SENTATIVITY --

GO FISHING AND INJOY

Bill - willierods.com

Bill,
Don't yell, I have sensitive ears.

Willie
I'm one of them
And anything I can to to improve that sensitivity is what I do!
Build one with enough of it, and you don't have to worry about putting your finger on the line. (Which I don't find comfortable)

Question; "SENTAVIVITY" how does building a rod that can smell better improve your fishing?

Jim,

I'm a lefty as well, a bit screwy because I throw a baseball with my right, but cast with my left. It's likely the reason I do most casting two handed. Both hands have a role in loading the rod and generating tip speed. My grip never changes from casting to retrieving. My hands are small enough that gripping the rod as I do, my thumb stays in a comfortable position for thumbing the spool. I have a buddy with much larger hands that grips the rod the same way while retrieving, but shifts his grip to one finger in front of the trigger for casting. He does it without switching hands. I hadn't noticed this, and almost had to rebuild the handle for a rod for him. Fortunately modifying the back edge of grip at the reel seat slightly fixed it for him.

Palming for me requires at least 3 fingers in front of the trigger, and my index finger still doesn't reach across the level wind to keep contact with the line, and is uncomfortable as all get out.

I would love to be able to remove the excess material from the seat, but I just haven't found a design that does so comfortably for me. Maybe someday.

My bass rods usually come in between 3 and 4oz. I know where my extra weight is, but haven't figured out how to get rid of it without compromising my ergonomics requirements. I know from the split TN handle spinning rods I've done that if I could get rid of that weight in the reel seat, I would be a much happier camper, and fully understand why you are building the way you are.

One other option for the seat is the Batson exposed blank seats. They have 4 ribs that come down to the blank in the barrel, offering an option that is neither a solid barrel but still doesn't require an arbor.

I'm curious to see what you settle on.


Bill,

Comfort is critical, and dictates the way I build, but if I ever find a split design that feels right, I'll be switching in a heartbeat. On a typical bass rod at least 25% of the total rod weight is in the reel seat. The extra weight, even in the reel seat area, has a significant effect on the rod. Splitting the seat and trimming threads can quickly add up to a 10-15% or more total weight reduction in a build which is pretty significant. Not to mention, removing any material that doesn't need to be there and still satisfies the ergonomic requirements results in a more efficient fishing tool than one that incorporates extra material.

Unfortunately not all of us can put a finger on the line comfortably, and we will eek out as much sensitivity as we can from the design of the rod.

Steve,

Some good points. The 'bounce back effect' is described by the transmission coefficient (the ratio of the amplitude of a vibration that makes it past a material change to the initial amplitude) and the reflection coefficient (ratio of the amplitude bounced back at the material change to the initial amplitude). I like to minimize glue joints as well for those reasons and others.

I'm really curious to see Batson has in store for a new seat.

Joe

Joe
Your 1st paragraph makes perfect sense to me. Making two-handed casts does allow you to maintain the “palming” grip on the reel. Most of my casting is done single handed. My rods are relatively short, so no long levers to overcome by using two hands. Try casting single handed with your reel “palmed” (Ha). I would imagine that the length of the grip behind the reel seat of your rods is pretty short and wouldn’t serve much purpose. That would save some weight. BTW, with the SK2 split reel seats, I found myself doing what your buddy did. The grip was so uncomfortable with one finger ahead of the trigger that I had to reposition my fingers where I had at least 2 fingers in front of the trigger. Maybe that’s what Fuji had in mind when they designed it.

Jim
In addition to your comment about 2 handed casting - I was a one handed caster for years and years and perfectly happy with it.
I was happy until one day I was on the river with my buddy who was using a similar rod and was out casting me by at least 20 yards to be able to hit some little ripples in the river. He said, "try casting two handed".
i started casting two handed that day, and I haven't gone back to single handed casting for nearly any type fishing.
By using two hands, one can really increase the tip velocity of the rod. Also, one increases the accuracy and lure placement.

Always nice to learn something different to you, that some one else has done for a long time.

Be safe
Roger