I am looking for a little feedback about Peel n Stick VS Waterslide decals.

I have attempted a few waterslide decals on clear and white media with ''Very Little'' success. On my last project i attempted no less than 5 times with white and 2 times with clear and once i thought i had it right, once epoxied it looks like poo !

I want to try the Inkjet Peel n Stick from DC but i am curious if anyone has had trouble with the image lifting when removeing the tape once placed. Are the decals sprayed with Krylon Clear or Fixative like the waterslides? Does epoxy make inkjet ink run?

I know these are questions for Decal Connection but they are Closed for the holiday and i thought it would make for good discussion.

Thank you in advance for your comments.
Wishing everyone a safe and happy New Year!

J Scott
Englewood, Fl

Any label printed with an inkjet will need to be coated with Krylon fixative or equivalent prior to installing. I would just plan on that step.

Terry

nothing beats waterslide with a printer capable of printing white and metallics.

I am not clear about whether you are talking about purchasing finished decals from DC or or the substrate. If you mean the finished decals, they work beautifully, and never an issue when lifting the top sheet after placing on the blank. No need to top coat with anything before applying epoxy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2012 11:49AM by Phil Erickson.

I've never used the peel 'n stick from DC as their waterslides have always done a great job for me. On the waterslides, I've never had to redo many...and that was always after application and before epoxy. I'd never epoxy over something that wasn't to my satisfaction.

The Peel n Sticks from Debbie are NOT done with inkjet printers, so there is no need to seal them with a fixative. Out of habit, I put on a coat of CP to seal the edges of the decal, but I would guess it's an unnecessary step. And no, I have never had any image lifting problems when removing the cover layer on the peel n stick. If that was a problem, they couldn't do business. Which brings up another point, by the way. I use inkjet waterslides all the time. I seal them with Testor's Decal Bonder, and I also put on a coat of CP after sliding them onto the rod blank. When I mess one up, it's because I didn't get it applied neatly, not because of image problems or epoxy.

DCs peel and stick decals are easy to use

Put a coat of finish on let dry take the bottom clear off
Put it where ya want it i rub wit a paper towel It has a clear over the decal so any thing works Prees it on
Peel off top layer

Finish Do not really need CP Your choice

Bill - willierods.com

Hey Jim,

I am not sure whether you make your own decals or not so I will offer some generic information that may help you with your inquiry.

Waterslide decals are what I started with in 2003 when I returned to rod building and used them up until about two years ago when the quality of the laser type waterslide paper went in the dump bucket and the supplier had no interest in improving it. Since I make my own decals, I tested at least six different waterslide papers and none worked properly as they all fogged under the decal no matter which way they were applied, even following the directions to the letter that were established by those making waterslide at the time.

P&S decals have their own set of issues as I found out as I went searching for an alternative to waterslides. The main one is you can't touch the adhesive layer while applying them . . .for obvious reasons! So I learned to cut them longer and touch that part and then cut it off after I had attached the usable part of the decal to the blank.

Another good aspect of P&S decals is that they allow the application of epoxy immediately after applying the decal because there is no drying time . . .because there is no water! Even P&S decals require a thin coat of properly cured epoxy UNDER the decal prior to decal application even if the blank is shiney and definitely for blanks that have a matte finish.

P&S decals are much thicker relative to waterslides, .0005" for WS and .0017" for P&S. I never tried to cover WS decals with one coat of epoxy and I definitely won't try that with P&S decals. I apply whatever amount it takes to properly cover the decal which is usually two coats of ThreadMaster Hi-Build - I usually apply more than that anyway depending on what custom work has been done at the decal area.

If applied properly, a high quality P&S decal should not need any other solution to be applied onto or around itself because the decal should have a high quality adhesive layer that prevents the raising of the decal when the epoxy is applied. I don't believe P&S decals can be successfully created with an inkjet printer due to the poor adhesion of the liquid pigments. Proper decal printers are those that are dry transfer and use the opaque pigments such as the ALPS printers.

I now am using what I call a "transfer film" on my decals and have for quite some time, which I feel is equivalent to what DC supplies, and it greatly improves the application of the decal. It prevents the touching of the adhesive layer of the decal and still allows proper alignment while maintaining control of the application. Since the pigment for the decal is technically "burned" into the surface of the decal film by the heated printer head, the transfer film will not lift it off. I use a 6" piece of a rod blank to sorta "smear" the decal onto the blank making sure all areas of the decal are seated to the blank giving special attention to all of the edges - then peel away the transfer film, mix the epoxy and you are ready to go. I use a piece of rod blank to seat the decal due to the porosity of the adhesive layer and finger pressure may not be sufficient or concentrated enough to properly cause the adhesive layer to disappear.

It also doesn't hurt to have perfectly clean hands and fingers before performing any rod wrapping or decal application work as this prevents any oil and dirt transfer to the decal and surrounding area.

Hope this helps.

Charlie

What Charlie calls "smearing" is actually burnishing the decal before removing the top carrier layer. This is important so as to get out any possible air from under the decal and especially to seal the edges down firmly. I always put down one coat of epoxy to place the decal upon, this insures you have clean uncontaminated surface and seems to really solve the visible edge problem some encounter.

Charlie, is the transfer film similar to the laser cut fish decals you can buy from many of the suppliers? Who makes the material you use? I've tried the Papilio peel and stick laser printer paper with good success.

Steve Hartzell
Lake Conroe - Willis, Texas

Hey Steve,

I have not used any of the precut decals so I do not have first hand information on what is used. I have seen a few of the Bill-Mar decals that Jimi Ellis supplied but at the time did not pay attention on how they were made to be applied.

The product I use for the transfer film is made by American Biltrite, Inc. and 3M makes the decal media. I have some of the peel & stick media from Papilio I purchased several years ago when waterslides were the household word and I still have most of it left.

Charlie

Hello All,
Thanks for the Great comments.

My comments concerning the image lifting on DC peel and stick was about making my own inkjet decals on DC peel n stick media.

My issues with waterslide have been everything from the decal folding in half, smearing the image with my fingers trying to get it off the backing, the image cracking under the Krylon clear when the decal rolls up in the 5 second water bath, And the most common is the ink running once wet (after if have applied three coats of Krylon Fixative.

The above reasons are why i want to print my own PnS decals because no water involved.

I plan on Calling Debbie at DC and ordinging some media, i was just looking for user comments.

Thanks agian fo the info.

J Scott
Englewood, Fl

when you say waterslide paper went on the crapper, so what happens to the RC modelers group? they are a bigger group compared to rod builders and are still using waterslide.
what happens to guitar logos that uses waterslides? i havgent seen them switch to peel n stick yet because the waterslide decal paper went to the crapper.

Charlie Armontrout Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I now am using what I call a "transfer film" on my
> decals and have for quite some time, which I feel
> is equivalent to what DC supplies, and it greatly
> improves the application of the decal. It prevents
> the touching of the adhesive layer of the decal
> and still allows proper alignment while
> maintaining control of the application. Since the
> pigment for the decal is technically "burned" into
> the surface of the decal film by the heated
> printer head, the transfer film will not lift it
> off. I use a 6" piece of a rod blank to sorta
> "smear" the decal onto the blank making sure all
> areas of the decal are seated to the blank giving
> special attention to all of the edges - then peel
> away the transfer film, mix the epoxy and you are
> ready to go. I use a piece of rod blank to seat
> the decal due to the porosity of the adhesive
> layer and finger pressure may not be sufficient or
> concentrated enough to properly cause the adhesive
> layer to disappear.
>
> It also doesn't hurt to have perfectly clean hands
> and fingers before performing any rod wrapping or
> decal application work as this prevents any oil
> and dirt transfer to the decal and surrounding
> area.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Charlie


Charlie,

Can you tell me what type transfers you use. I haven't been able to find any that get good reviews. Many thanks.

Can you tell me what type of printer and transfers you use. I haven't been able to find any that get good reviews. Many thanks.

Those trying to print their own decals on inkjet printers should be aware that most if not all inks will not last very long in the sun without changing colors, some in a major fashion.

I have been unable to identify any inkjet inks that claim UV resistance. Decal Connection products do not fade according to my experience with them for many years.

I thought inkjet on a waterslide was a great idea, but it didn't take long to find out the ink on inkjets are not very good quality, and also that printers don't print white.

Hi Charlie
I’m looking to print my own decals. Any suggestion on a printer and what media film you use? That would be very helpful. I do a lot of custom logos for people and it’s been costing me a big chunk to have them done and shipped. I thought about trying to print my own. Any help is very much appreciated! Thank you, Joe Pirro.

Could I get the name of the transfer film. I would like to try and print my own.
Thanks Joe Pirro

I used to use Papilio media, and it was very good. I cannot find them now, maybe out of business. But do a search for decal media on Amazon and you'll find plenty of options. Unless you know something I don't, be prepared for big color changes when exposed to even reasonable amounts of UV/sunlight.