I have a question that's been haunting me for some time, lol. I know the builders of a few years ago could use drafting tape or some other methed to design decorative butt wraps, but how did they figure the spacing for the layout threads? I never saw anything about how to figure out the spacing in any Dale Clemon's books, or anywhere else for that matter except for VisualWrap, and Billy V's book, and i know neither one was available back then. Just curious if someone could clear this up for me, and help me get and answer to my haunting question. Thanks all, Jack

Mud hole has some basic "how-to" articles here - [www.mudhole.com]

There are a couple of articles that outline how to layout your wraps there. I'm sure there are tons of other publications that explain it out there, but that's a start.

Hi,

This can get involved, complicated and cause grief. I will not get deep into this as their are many builders better at this than i.

Do you have "Custom Rod Thread Art" by Dale Clemens? Page 21 explains Taper Offset Layout. He explains this when doing a closed wrap but it can be used to layout the cross over locations of your wrap. Being a member of RodCrafters back in the day I was taught this by very experienced builders. Oh, I learned so much from the best at those seminars all around the USA.

For my work I chose to use a measurement of 1" between centers. Most of the blanks that I build on have little taper in the butt wind area. Use wood dowels about the diameter of your blanks and practice different lengths between centers and do the same wrap. You will see how the wrap changes it's look.

I hope this helps to get you started.

Oh, I miss going to the RodCrafter Seminars, great people and great builders always willing to teach and share.

Capt Neil Faulkner

Thanks Capt, I guess i didn't make myself too clear. I know how to figure your basic lay out points for a cross, my question is how did the other builders figure out the spacing between a cross and a box for something like a St. John's Cross where you have a cross out, box in. That's the spacing i meant, sorry for not being more clearer about that.

JAck, they had to do it by experiance. For me the best part about my book is the spacing charts which tell you the distance between points when you start a pattern. Clemens book just had a bunch of lines and then the finished wrap, leaving a lot of figuring out to the builder. Once you've actually done a few wraps you get an idea how far the threads should be placed when you start out.

Neil, NERBs Gatherings have replaced the ROdcrafter Seminars. And you don't have to wait until March or January to attend 1, I do them every week....starting on Saturday & Sunday



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/03/2012 07:58PM by Billy Vivona.

Hi Jack,

Okay, now it is time for me to exit the best way I can. Ha, my brain unfortunately does not work the way needed for these intricate butt wraps. Sorry.

Good fortune.

Capt Neil Faulkner

Jack, Craig provided a link with some of the answers. Read the articles by BD Ehler.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Russel, JAcks specific question is not answerred in BDs tutorials. He wants to know how to know the distance between layout points for a particular pattern, and how people used to do it prior to my book coming out. BD's articles are very informative, but they do not cover how far apart to place these threads. This is not a taper offsat spacing question.HE should read the tutorial anyway becaus eBD did an excellent job with them and they are extremely helpful.

The early method that still works to get the circumference is to wrap a piece of masking tape around the blank about in the middle of where the wrap will be.
Mark where it crosses over itself, un-tape and measure that length.
30 to 40 mm is the typical length on a freshwater casting or spinning rod.
That will give you a "square" diamond layout from center to center of the diamond..
It is very basic, and there are other ways, but this is what I recall from an early Clemens book and how I did my first.
Hope this helps,

Best wishes,
Ron Schneider
Schneider's Rod Shop
Mountain Home, Arkansas
[www.schneidersrods.com]
mtnron40@yahoo.com
870-424-3381

GUys, he's not asking about spacing the wrap pattern to pattern. He's asking how to space teh layout threads. I feel like a broken record more than I usually do.

I used clemons book for years to do decorative butt wraps. They were all open wraps. I never attempted a closed wrap until a couple years ago after buying Billy's book. It was the first souce I found that told and showed how to space so your threads closed the wrap evenly through the length of the wrap.

Bruce Johnstone
boise, ID

Pretty much it was all done by trial and error until Billy was kind enough to release this information in his book. If you have any interest in decorative wraps it Billy's is by far and away the best available book to date with or without the VisualWrap software. The information is explained in such a way that is easily read and understood. Clemens's books were a great start, but I personally feel Billy's just sort of blew it away in the aspect of decorative wraps in both information and ease of understanding. I have them all, and refer to them all.

Billy - Thank you.

Sean, your welcome. JAck already has a copy of my book, he was just asking because without the sapcing charts it is difficult to figure out. I know that ws the biggest obstacle I had when I started, so I made sure to add that into my book. I already had spacing charts for all the wraps that I had done, so it wasn't too much of a stretch to figure it out for all the other patterns. HArdest part was how to convey the info clearly, and set it up so there wasn't redundancy for each pattern.

Thanks Billy for your input. I thought i was clear enough and glad you understood the question. And yes you're right, i do have you book, great book and good source on info, and i also have VisualWrap. I was just wondering how someone without your book and VW would go about figuring the spacing. Thanks again for your input. I'll be e-mailing you soon for some stuff. Later.

It amazes me how the "old school" thread artists back in the day, came up with the patterns they did!

How they did, I bet, was mostly from trial & error. That said, without a strong understanding of the mechanics involved it would be more error than trial. Once one has "the mechanics" down, mathematics can provide a close starting point from which to work from. After all, that's how VW fingers it out.

Frankly, I bet, many thread artists just sat down and wrapped what was in there head (maybe from sketch pad notes made prior) making educated guesses from experience in regards to various spacing requirements to acheive the desired pattern.

Basicly, the right knowlage will give you an idea of the number of passes to make the pattern and the number of passes will provide the spacing requirements to complete the passes.

Spacing can also be tweeked on the fly sometimes by just pushing in or out and moving threads around as needed as the wrap progresses.

Now figure out, if using "D" thread or "A" thread would be better suited for the size of blank one is working with? OMG! I should have kept better notes on my wraps! Thank goodness I DO HAVE Visual Wrap cuz I'm just to old for "old school".

Raymond Adams
Eventually, all things merge, and a river runs through it..