I need some help with micro guides for fly rods. I built a rod on a CTS Affinity MX blank (5 wt, 10'00") with REC single foot guides and I have to say I'am not very impressed by the casting performance (compared to snake guides). I'll cut the guides off and would like to give micro rings a go. After going through the posts covering micros, I feel the PacBay Minima 4 are a favorite.

May I ask for some guidelines about: Number of guides, make and size of recommended stripper guides (1 or 2) and the most suitable tip tops?

Has anyone compared the Pac Bay Minima 4 with American Tackle Titan Micros (nanolite rings) and/or Fuji Micros KT (Titanium Frame, SIC ring)? According to the information I could get on the web, the weight of Minima4, American Tackle and Fuji Micros are similar and I imagine that ceramic rings might be less noisy than the minima4?

Minima4 #3 ID = 2.2mm, weight 0.068 grams
Minima4 #4 ID = 3.4mm, weight 0.077 grams
Minima4 #5 ID = 4.3mm, weight 0.140 grams

Am Tackle # 3 ID = 2.1mm, weight 0.045 grams
AM Tackle # 4 ID = 2.44mm, weight 0.07 grams

Fuji Micro KT #4 ID =2.1mm, weight 0.045 grams
Fuji Micro KT #4.5 ID = 2.45mm, weight 0.06 grams

Unfortunately I couldn't find a complete list of the guide specs, but the above numbers indicate that the weight to ID ratio seems to be very similar.

Thank you in advance for your highly appreciated thoughts.
Cheers,
Peter (New Zealand)

You must use the proper sized guides in order to get the best performance possible. The proper size is that which is the smallest that will still pass your line and any and all required connections, while holding up to the task required.

Ceramic rings pass line more quietly than any other type. They also weigh a bit more than those in similar size that do not possess a ceramic ring.

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Peter,
Are you sure that you have the proper line for the rod? Even though it is listed as a 5 weight, it may perform better with a 6 wt or a 4 wt line. Also, a 10 foot rod could to be a little more difficult to cast than a shorter rod. The issue may have nothing to do with your guide selection.
The Recoil single foots are most likely the lightest guides, in terms of weight, and should cast great, provided they are large enough to pass your connections. As Tom said, ceramics are going to bit heavier, and even the Minimas will outweigh the Recoils. That said, I prefer the Minimas, in a size 5 for my medium duty fly rods.

George Forster
Fort Collins, CO

Or, it may perform better with more or less of a 5-weight line. Remember, a 4, 5 or 6-weight line all weigh the same at some respective distance.

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I find the minnima 4's in a size 5 is great for guys who use nail, surgeon,and blood knot connections, while those who use loop to loop, the size 6 is better.

What size are the single foot REC's?

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Like Dick, I would hesitate to go smaller than size 5 in the Minima 4 series. That will provide you with a 4.5mm line opening.

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Thank you all for your input.

I built this rod before (with snake guides) and a 5-weight dry-line and 6 weight inter line balance the rod very well.

Russ: I've used RECs in size 2, 3 and 4

The REC worked reasonably well for me with a dry line (although noisy) but with intermediate lines and clear lines the guides tend to be "sticky"

I understand Minima4, size 5 and larger seems the way to go. What make and size of stripper guides (1 or 2) would you recommend?

Thanks
Peter

I have used single foot wire guides on 5 up to 7 wt Fast Action St croix rods And loved them

All rods -- carry -- weight weather it be a lure or line They use this weight to load the blank to cast it well

try heaver weight -- Line Try several May not be the guides

Bill - willierods.com

A high frame 12 would be my choice, followed perhaps by a high frame 8, then all size 5's to the tiptop.

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Thanks Peter. I'm new to building fly rods and got the impression REC's were the "bee's knees". I just did a 5 weight with size 3 and 4 single foot guides are thought the 3's looked huge.

Thinking logically....would the right choice for a stripper guide be dependent on arbor size of the reel? Looking at some of the serious large arbor tarpon reels I was feeling like the traditional casting style guide wasn't going to cut it.

Russ in Hollywood, FL.

Russ, I have a good idea where my problems with the REC guides come from. Given they are very light (thin wire) and built from nickel titanium alloy they are very flexible. I'm pretty sure that the relatively high friction of a fly line (especially intermediate and clear lines) can cause some sort of "vibration" (tiny movements of the guide) which make them feel sticky. The only thing that helped during my extensive test casting was to dip rod and reel into the river. The wet line and wet guides seemed to prevent the above mentioned effect.

I don't think that the size of the arbor has any impact on the guide selection. With fly rods the line is only pulled of the reel when a powerful fish runs away from you. In all other situations the line is pulled of the reel by hand and placed on the ground, in the water or in your stripping basket. Some rod builders do recommend to position the first stripper in a slight angle (towards your line hand) to create a better angle between the first stripper and the line on the ground.

Tom, thank you for your help with the size of the stripper guides - I'll give it a go.

Bill, thanks for your comment. As mentioned earlier I'm quite happy with the line selection. I test casted lines from 4 up to 7. #5 dry fly line (Rio Grande, which is more a 5.5 than a 5 line, and #6 for intermediate lines seem to suit the blank beautifully.

Cheers, Peter

Try lubracating the line When fishing I do a line at least 3 - 4 times in a 5 houre outing It may be too dry

Bill - willierods.com